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  1. #21
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    4w5 so/sp


    The reason the Israeli-Palestinian confict is so present in people's minds is because terrorism works. The aims of terrorism is to bring your cause to the forefront and for people to engage in debate over it. Eventually some nation will do something stupid then people start to feel sorry for the terrorists and begin to support their cause. It happens over and over again. No one gives a sh*t about oppressed peoples that don't engage in violence. Often you have to bomb a western nation before people sit up and take notice of your cause.

    Your stats are really depressing eagleseven. There are so many wars and genocides that have taken place (and are taking place) that are all but invisible in the eyes of the west. Its as if they never happened... And it seems to be especially hard on black Africans, whose lives are seen as the most worthless and expendable - racism is definitely an element. The worst thing is a lot of these conflicts are indirectly caused by western imperialism in the first place.

    (And BTW you notice that the statistics are for 'the Arab-Israeli confict'. That is including the 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 wars between Israel and various Arab nations, which weren't even about the Palestinians' rights (as the conflict is viewed today) and they make up most of the death toll. In reality, the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict is even lower on that list)

  2. #22
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    (And BTW you notice that the statistics are for 'the Arab-Israeli confict'. That is including the 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 wars between Israel and various Arab nations, which weren't even about the Palestinians' rights (as the conflict is viewed today) and they make up most of the death toll. In reality, the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict is even lower on that list)
    You're right, it is even lower on that list. Some years, car accidents make more direct casualities in this country than this "conflict".

    Yes, if many people are litteraly obsessed by Israel or Palestine, it's because of the symbol both adversaries represent. Or so they think.

    What's curious for a visitor in Palestine, is the number of journalists and reporters you cross. They are everywhere. As a matter of fact, it's the densest concentration of correspondants and reporters in the world: more than in Washington DC, more than in the entire continent of Africa. If anything happens, you will have immediately hundreds of microphones trying to interview the main protagonists. Just follow the clamour of camera flashes.

    If somebody gets shot in Tulkarem, chances are you will immediately hear it on the evening news, way more than if someone gets shot just in the neighbouring housing estate.

    Sometimes, with so much voyeurism, you have to wonder what's really going on. Sometimes, even the screams seem fake: they sound like Hollywood. But sometimes they're real: that's the tragedy of it.

    The Israel/Palestine conflict looks like a kind of cross between a reality show and a telenovela: it contains cheap drama, passion, tension, and many people get quickly addicted to it. Why should the audience asks for something more?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #23


    I think this conflict garners the disproportionate attention it does because of the way anti-Semitism has become such a huge bugaboo since the Holocaust. Zionists have cleverly converted the residual sympathy from that event into a kind of moral authority that shames people into going along with the Israeli agenda. Some factions, such as the ADL, make it their job to be offended and thus to promulgate the notion that Jews are the most oppressed people on Earth. And they've succeeded to a large degree, because anti-Semitism is right at the top of the list of things you never want to be accused of. I think this fuels the rhetoric and attention surrounding the Israel/Palestine conflict.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.


  4. #24
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Nov 2009


    It's because the US and Israel is in love with each other.

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Aug 2008


    Am I the only one who thinks the Israel/Palestine conflict is just a terrific human drama with a compelling storyline, and that that explains a good deal of the global media interest/obsession?

    I also agree with what EffEm said. And the Arab media outlets do their part as well to try and drum up global support and sympathy for the Palestinian cause.

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Jan 2010


    i like my dramas in a kind of...Pixar family fun kind of way. an occassional Good Fellas though too.

    too many kids starving or getting their legs blown off in this drama.

  7. #27
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Nov 2008


    1) Yes, when one considers all the other wrong things that have been and are going on in the world, including widespread oppression and massacres, some of which are scarcely reported on, there are good reasons for contstruing the disproportionate media focus on the Palestine situation as racist.

    2)This is not to say that two wrongs make a right.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Conflicts since 1950 with over 10,000 Fatalities

    1 40,000,000 Red China, 1949-76 (outright killing, gulag)
    2 10,000,000 Soviet Bloc: (gulag, forced starvation)
    3 4,000,000 Ethiopia, 1962-92: Communists, artificial hunger, genocides
    4 3,800,000 Zaire (Congo-Kinshasa): 1967-68; 1977-78; 1992-95; 1998-present
    5 2,800,000 Korean war, 1950-53
    6 1,900,000 Sudan, 1955-72; 1983-2006 (civil wars, genocides)
    7 1,870,000 Cambodia: Khmer Rouge 1975-79; civil war 1978-91
    8 1,800,000 Vietnam War, 1954-75
    9 1,800,000 Afghanistan: Soviet and internecine killings, Taliban 1980-2001
    10 1,250,000 West Pakistan massacres in East Pakistan (Bangladesh 1971)
    11 1,100,000 Nigeria, 1966-79 (Biafra); 1993-present
    12 1,100,000 Mozambique, 1964-70 (30,000) + after retreat of Portugal 1976-92
    13 1,000,000 Iran-Iraq-War, 1980-88
    14 900,000 Rwanda genocide, 1994
    15 875,000 Algeria: against France 1954-62 (675,000); between Islamists and the government 1991-2006 (200,000)
    16 850,000 Uganda, 1971-79; 1981-85; 1994-present
    17 650,000 Indonesia: Marxists 1965-66 (450,000); East Timor, Papua, Aceh etc, 1969-present (200,000)
    18 580,000 Angola: war against Portugal 1961-72 (80,000); after Portugal's retreat (1972-2002)
    19 500,000 Brazil against its Indians, up to 1999
    20 430,000 Vietnam, after the war ended in 1975 (own people; boat refugees)
    21 400,000 Indochina: against France, 1945-54
    22 400,000 Burundi, 1959-present (Tutsi/Hutu)
    23 400,000 Somalia, 1991-present

    24 400,000 North Korea up to 2006 (own people)
    25 300,000 Kurds in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, 1980s-1990s
    26 300,000 Iraq, 1970-2003 (Saddam against minorities)
    27 240,000 Colombia, 1946-58; 1964-present
    28 200,000 Yugoslavia, Tito regime, 1944-80
    29 200,000 Guatemala, 1960-96
    30 190,000 Laos, 1975-90
    31 175,000 Serbia against Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, 1991-1999
    32 150,000 Romania, 1949-99 (own people)
    33 150,000 Liberia, 1989-97
    34 140,000 Russia against Chechnya, 1994-present
    35 150,000 Lebanon civil war, 1975-90
    36 140,000 Kuwait War, 1990-91
    37 130,000 Philippines: 1946-54 (10,000); 1972-present (120,000)
    38 130,000 Burma/Myanmar, 1948-present
    39 100,000 North Yemen, 1962-70
    40 100,000 Sierra Leone, 1991-present
    41 100,000 Albania, 1945-91 (own people)
    42 80,000 Iran, 1978-79 (revolution)
    43 75,000 Iraq, 2003-present (domestic)
    44 75,000 El Salvador, 1975-92
    45 70,000 Eritrea against Ethiopia, 1998-2000
    46 68,000 Sri Lanka, 1997-present
    47 60,000 Zimbabwe, 1966-79; 1980-present
    48 60,000 Nicaragua, 1972-91 (Marxists/natives etc,)
    49 51,000 Arab-Israeli conflict 1950-present
    50 50,000 North Vietnam, 1954-75 (own people)


    Why do so many obsess about the conflict of two tiny peoples, when far greater tragedies are still occurring around the world?

    The only thing that sets Israel apart is its ethnicity.


    Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th :: Daniel Pipes

    Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls
    Actually I would suggest it may be racist to ignore the other atrocities you've highlighted, I dont think it is racist to focus upon the Arab-Israel conflict per se though, it is a conflict which both those directly involved and those outside supporters and antagonists try very hard, and successfully, to raise the profile off.

    To be honest I also think that much of the criticism that exists of Israel is a consequence of a moral climate created by recent European memory of the Nazi ghettoisation and holocaust of Jews and suspiscions or concerns that they could be capable of reproducing that themselves. And that again the rest of the world wont have a clue about what to do about it until its too late.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

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