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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2009

    Default How far is self-reliance possible?

    A great deal of libertarian and conservative thinking is premised upon indpendence, individualism, self-reliance, just how possible are those ideals presently?
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #2
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Jun 2009


    Never were. Humans are social creatures. Our question of "individualism" is simply one of the level of responsibility we all have to greater society.

  3. #3
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    One sx/sp


    In what context is "presently", exactly?

    I tend to believe there's something of a autocatalytic relationship between population size, technological advancement, and political administration. They all give each other positive feedback. On the other hand, I believe all three of those things, especially political administration, have a negative relationship to self-reliance.

    It has been my opinion for some time now that if you're talking about a society of 300 million people, with 21st century technology, self-reliance is not feasibly anywhere close to the degree Libertarians tend to expect.

    This has to do with the fact that self-reliance is a lot of work. It leaves little spare time and few options. To develop any one of the interconnected parts of the great autocatalytic process, you have to start building a system where people can rely on each other to hold up different aspects of life and pursue different enterprises. Specialization forms. Humans become interdependent as a collection of different specialists. We rely on the self no more.


    It must be said though that even as hunting and gathering bands we were already in some ways very collective. Humans in that time would probably have died without cooperation of band members.
    Go to sleep, iguana.

    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #4
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Aug 2009


    self-reliance in what respect?

    For basic survival, self-reliance is possible. It's probably not possible to be completely self-reliant and live in a modern civilization without running in to a few problems however. Self-reliance, in the sense that conservatives and libertarians use the term, seems to be synonymous with personal responsibility(taking responsibility for ones basic needs) rather than living independently with no social attachments or no outside support.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”

  5. #5
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
    1w9 sp/sx


    self reliance is justification for why they are "entitled" to 100% of the money they earn. If no one helped them make the money, then they can moralize about you stealing it from them in taxes.

    thats all this is about (regarding libertarians/conservatives)

  6. #6
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Jul 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Never were. Humans are social creatures. Our question of "individualism" is simply one of the level of responsibility we all have to greater society.
    Humans have proven themselves remarkably capable of independent happiness.

    There is no responsibility to society which isn't instrumental to responsibility to self.
    wails from the crypt.

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