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Thread: Anarchy?

  1. #21
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Indeed. That's one reason why I cannot consider myself fully a conservative; not least of which because I do have many sympathies with you can call "Leftist" arguments or impulses in regards to political policy and discourse.
    Its funny because in the version of Conservatism (ideas in the social sciences series) Robert Nisbet, which I've got, which may be called something different in the US like Conservatism: Promises and Consequenes or something like that Nisbet makes a great many arguments which could be considered "leftist".

    He suggests that the whole premise of conservatism is opposing individualism and statism and that early conservative attacks on industrialism, urbanism and the factory system, like Southey or Coleridge, were more radical than socialism because socialists supported the productive power of capitalism and therefore the factory system.

    Socialists like Marx did consider capitalism capable of productivity that would operate like "a rising tide would lift all boats" (an idea since adopted by free market conservatives as the "trickle down effect"). Not all socialists, just the ones like Marx which were modernist, the other varieties Marx labelled utopian and spent the lions share of the communist manifesto attacking.

    These "utopian" socialists probably would share a lot of ground with Nisbet's conservatives because they pretty much considered that productivity, plenty and prosperity be damned it was irretrievably tearing to pieces the very social fabric on which it depended for its very existence in the first place.

    To be honest, I cant recall the name but its in Nisbet's book again, but he writes about some US politico who said that he was a liberal in politics, a conservative in culture and socialist in economics, now despite a suspiscion that he's using socialism as a misnomer for keynesian or mixed economics whoever that was is closest to my politics I'd guess.

    Its like Eric Fromm, he's described in Karen Horney's biography as someone who could balance opposites within his own personality, profoundly traditionalist Jewish but at once profoundly modernist socialist (his writings appear agnostic, even athiestic but still spiritual, if you know what I mean). Fromm's one of my favourite authors and I think that realistically mature personalities are like that, able to balance and contain contrasts or contradictions.

    Its maybe no mistake either that I think Chris Lasch is one of the greatest era's to Fromm and Lasch is a paleo-conservative, despising both capitalism and its conventional left wing critics. Lasch would suggest that a lot of the left dont want an end to or alternative to capitalism, just better capitalism, they want lots of people who havent already to share the supposed benefice of capitalism and the capitalist dream. I'm inclined to agree.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #22


    Yes I agree Lark with much of what you say. Unfortunately, Ive not been in the greatest of moods to be able to more fully articulate my stances on this. I will say that much of what passes off as "Conservatism" in America these days can't even called a terrible parody of the actual concept.

  3. #23


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah, this. I think true anarchy will eventually lead to totalitarianism in most cases. Some dominating meglomaniac will eventually pop up and take control.
    Yes, the greater the chaos, the greater the flux into order will be. Like the tension of a rubber band snapping.

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