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  1. #21
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I remember when he went on Crossfire and shot them down. I thought it was hilarious--"The show leading into mine is puppets making crank phone calls!" "You guys are partisan...what do you call it...hacks!"
    That will be one of my favorite Jon Stewart moments, always -- "You are hu-urting America..."

    But I'm starting to become more than a bit irritated at his self-righteous Fi crusades against people in politics that he's just positive are up to something nefarious. The problem isn't even that he's wrong, because he's often right--the problem is that he has no idea that there's any possibility he could be wrong, which is one of my biggest problems with Ji in general, but especially Fi.
    Why is it Fi crusades? His arguments are always backed by factual evidence dug up by a pretty good team. He brings up well thought through points and expects that in return. Most people aren't prepared to match wits with him. That doesn't make his argument an fi crusade. You make it sound like he's running purely on emotional spur which seems off.

    He also doesn't take a purely partisan position - he takes a position after examining the evidence. There's no "wrong' here in the normative sense unless he's missed a vital piece of information that wasn't available to him. One could disagree with his interpretation of the evidence which people have the opportunity to do but rarely do well. His statements are backed by facts - more than can be said of many of his guests.

    I think he rarely gets a guest who is really prepared to answer his questions and debate him the way would be needed to show his position isn't the most rational one, given the evidence. That's the real problem as evidenced by the interviews referenced here.

    He needs to make up his mind about whether or not he's a comedian. He launches crusades in the form of serious political attacks and "pwnage" (which is typically just his leftist audience mindlessly cheering after his every word), and then dodges serious criticism from others by hiding behind, "Well hey I'm just a comedian; my show is a joke!" Well, which is it, Jon? Comedian or political crusader?
    I think this is a fair point. He is not just a comedian (although there's nothing 'just' about doing comedy well), he is a political commentator, has prominent guests on his show and questions them in a rather pointed manner - it's not just comedy althout it is pretty funny a lot of the time (as is the reality of the world we live in). He was filling a void that existed before MSNBC had Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow and continues to have a large and loyal following (many moderates by the way, not just liberals). I think your point is well taken in that he should just accept that he is doing political commentary and own it.

    Having said that, what would taking responsibility for doing more than a comedy show mean in practice? What would we expect from serious journalists? Primarily that they have a good research team, do honest appraisals of issues and take the stand that makes the most sense given the facts before them - without trying to alter or cherry pick the evidence. We can't really hope for neutrality from anyone but altering the evidence or providing poor to little evidence would be more serious allegations to worry about. He already lives up to this standard of serious journalism and does this better than most political commentators on TV so what would be different besides him just saying out aloud in words, 'I'm not just a comedian' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriana View Post
    Great interview, I don't think it was one of Stewart's strongest ever, but it was a little bit of special
    I agree. It wasn't his strongest but he asked good questions and did enough to show that his interviewee was running on little but conviction - that only takes you so far without facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I was struck by how arrogant she seemed. How she kept interrupting him and saying stuff like "You're a nice guy, but you're wrong." It was condescending.
    I agree - it was also annoying in the way that made her look worse and like more of a flake. It just reflected that she didn't really have much prepared in way of countering the points he made.

  2. #22
    . Blank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    It was absolutely fucking hilarious when he pointed out her leap in "logic."
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  3. #23
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009


    JS is cool, but there is a bit of nut-huggery.

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