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View Poll Results: Should the United States move towards providing universal health care?

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  • Yes

    47 62.67%
  • No

    28 37.33%
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  1. #71
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It's amazing that there is a common root that is technically attached to all societal problems, and yet people often do not or cannot acknowledge it, a predicament that is also tied to the basic psychology underpinning the habits and conduct of just about every individual homo sapien, though it presents itself much more prominently when viewed at the macro level (groups of humans). Individuals have the ability to abate their basic nature, and this certainly carries over into the collective at times, but to much less of an effect. If I could sum it up in one way, I could say that society/collective acts on an instinctual and primitive level, while the individual is more dynamic and complex. Fully acknowledging these facts, it is quite easy to predict the movements of groups of people. One simply has to accept the less than flattering aspects to what one would call human nature.
    I fail to see what this has to do with anything I said about having smart people run the healthcare system. In fact, I believe one smart person feeds thousands and the US does not do a good enough job of finding that smart person, outside of tech, research and development, inventors...

    us needs more innovation and less bubble wealth. corporations aren't run by the smartest anymore, they are just run by the best bullshietters and corporate politics. And those aren't the type of people who can make a good car.

    you do have to change culture from the top down... how possible that is, i don't know. but while we are off talking on tangents, whats a good taco place in downtown san diego?

  2. #72
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    CA accounts for 32% of the nation's welfare services, and at least 10 billion a year goes to non US citizens in the state.

    Not that I don't trust you, but got a source for that.

  3. #73
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    To my understanding, the large majority of welfare dollars go into corporate welfare, not personal welfare.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Ah. I clearly see you don't understand my argument.



    California's Balance of Payments with the Federal Treasury, Fiscal Years 1981-2003 -- A Special Report by the California Institute for Federal Policy Research



    its very simple. We pay more, than we receive. Your gambling analogy is flawed. You see, its like going to the bank and asking for 5 one dollar bills for your 5 dollar bill. But you get 4 dollars in return. And then you have a 20% budget shortfall.

    This argument isn't going to go away... its best to confront it for what it is.
    If the state paid 100% of its revenue to the government then your argument would actually make sense, but since nobody pays 100% of what they make, especially not the state of CA, you are still ignoring the fact that the state takes in a great deal of revenue as the 8th~12th largest economy IN THE WORLD, and that money they don't pay to federal taxes gets spent like a drunk person on crack and that's why we have the problems we do. It's not all because we have to pay a lot of federal taxes. Try one more time to show me how that is even a logical conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    Not that I don't trust you, but got a source for that.
    Don't Let California and New York Undermine Welfare Reform's Work Requirements

    Heritage foundation states it as NY and CA combined accounting for 32% of welfare recipients.

    Dems Want More Taxes in California - HUMAN EVENTS

    A high-profile example of how government has gone wrong in California can be found in its welfare system. With only 12 percent of Americaís population, California now strains under 32 percent of the nationís welfare caseload, according to data from the federal Department of Health and Human Services. Year after year, the one consistent thing Schwarzenegger has tried to do is to reform California welfare to reduce fraud and encourage welfare recipients to graduate to the dignity of work. And, year after year, legislative Democrats have rebuffed him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    To my understanding, the large majority of welfare dollars go into corporate welfare, not personal welfare.
    And that amount doesn't go down when we bail out and nationalize companies. There is one side of the country who would argue we are giving out too much "corporate welfare" then turn around and say we need to save every industry that might fall and hurt someone. There are days I wish I didn't have any logic whatsoever so I wouldn't have to thrust my hand through every logical hole I see. But that's off point. Regarding corporate welfare and social welfare, the two have very different aims and implementation. Nobody is arguing that we should have corporate welfare, and the mere mention of it doesn't negate the problems we have with social welfare.

  5. #75
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Yes !!

    If the worldwide economical system cracks due to welfare institutions, at least we'll die with a healthy soul.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #76
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I



    Don't Let California and New York Undermine Welfare Reform's Work Requirements

    Heritage foundation states it as NY and CA combined accounting for 32% of welfare recipients.

    Dems Want More Taxes in California - HUMAN EVENTS
    Well first off you've listed the heritage foundation. I wasn't familiar with humanevents so I checked it out a little. It has Anne Coulter ads plastered everywhere and the main editor has written titles like:
    Inside the Asylum: Why the UN and Old Europe are Worse than You Think, In the Words of Our Enemies, and the co-author of Showdown: Why China Wants War with the United States.

    -Your information comes from paranoid biased right wing news sources.
    -The two site you listed contradict each other. Is it just CA or CA&NY? I tried looking up the info at DHHS and couldn't find anything.

    -NY&CA comprise a little over 20%(Census bureau, a non-biased source) of the US population so even if we accept your 32%, its not as bad as previously thought.

    -There was no info about non-citizens receiving welfare which is the crux of why you are saying we shouldn't have socialized health care.

    None of this shit has anything to do with the merits of private vs. socialized healthcare.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    Well first off you've listed the heritage foundation. I wasn't familiar with humanevents so I checked it out a little. It has Anne Coulter ads plastered everywhere and the main editor has written titles like:
    Inside the Asylum: Why the UN and Old Europe are Worse than You Think, In the Words of Our Enemies, and the co-author of Showdown: Why China Wants War with the United States.

    -Your information comes from paranoid biased right wing news sources.
    -The two site you listed contradict each other. Is it just CA or CA&NY? I tried looking up the info at DHHS and couldn't find anything.

    -NY&CA comprise a little over 20%(Census bureau, a non-biased source) of the US population so even if we accept your 32%, its not as bad as previously thought.

    -There was no info about non-citizens receiving welfare which is the crux of why you are saying we shouldn't have socialized health care.

    None of this shit has anything to do with the merits of private vs. socialized healthcare.
    It is either CA or CA and NY, but since I can't verify the federal Department of Health and Human Services figure, I can't say. The percentage was likely derived from bare bones numbers provided by FDHHS, and the data presented that way, as often happens. If that were the case you'd have to look it up by searching for the actual numbers for welfare recipients provided by the FDHHS, and see if the stated percentage comes out. I don't care enough about this discussion to do that, admittedly.

  8. #78
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I get same-day appointments.

    It's about 3 weeks for me. Even with a sinus infection and secondary infections in both ears and they wouldn't prescribe an antibiotic over the phone without seeing me, either.

    I was miserable. wah.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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  9. #79
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If the state paid 100% of its revenue to the government then your argument would actually make sense, but since nobody pays 100% of what they make, especially not the state of CA, you are still ignoring the fact that the state takes in a great deal of revenue as the 8th~12th largest economy IN THE WORLD, and that money they don't pay to federal taxes gets spent like a drunk person on crack and that's why we have the problems we do. It's not all because we have to pay a lot of federal taxes. Try one more time to show me how that is even a logical conclusion.
    Sorry, but I can't believe anyone can be this thick headed.

    In 2003, the federal government spent a total of $6,192 per capita in California, compared to $6,910 per capita nationwide, a spending shortfall for the state of 12 percent.

    On the taxation side of the ledger, Californians paid in $6,611 per capita to the federal treasury, compared to a national average of $6,011 per capita, or a discrepancy of 9 percent.
    So California pays $60-80 billion more in federal taxes EVERY YEAR than it receives in federal services. Meaning federal money for UC schools, Cal State, Education, Health Care, Police, Fire Departments, etc.... the exact same things that have to be cut in order for California to not default.

    And our California budget deficit is $40 billion. Come on man. Pride getting in the way of the right solution is my biggest pet peeve dude. Just because the mothership has no proper mainstream answer for you, doesn't mean they don't know the question. It means they have no answer for you too.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Sorry, but I can't believe anyone can be this thick headed.



    So California pays $60-80 billion more in federal taxes EVERY YEAR than it receives in federal services. Meaning federal money for UC schools, Cal State, Education, Health Care, Police, Fire Departments, etc.... the exact same things that have to be cut in order for California to not default.

    And our California budget deficit is $40 billion. Come on man. Pride getting in the way of the right solution is my biggest pet peeve dude. Just because the mothership has no proper mainstream answer for you, doesn't mean they don't know the question. It means they have no answer for you too.
    The size of the state government has doubled over the past 10 years and CA has the highest sales, income, gas, and other taxes in the nation. On top of the amazing tax revenue, this state gets tons of it from other sources like all state economies that don't work in the same math bubble your brain is trapped in. The state gets hundreds of billions in revenue, which isn't surprising since this state alone is AGAIN, between the 7th and 10th (not 12th) largest economy in the world. You are an imbecile if you are seriously trying to blame the entire budget shortfall on federal taxes, which may indeed be high, but are not an excuse for how we spend the hundreds of billions in revenue that we do get.

    Just stop. In fact, don't stop, I'll stop for you. Unlike some I'm not trapped in Feeling (or Faulty) derived logical or a need to argue with people who are proven wrong time and time again and have no ability to see it. Yea I know, "You're a hypocrite Risen!" One or neither of us is right, and in the end, it doesn't matter because the ignorant shall remain in that state and the knowledgeable shall continue to build understanding. Neither of us has any effect on the situation, so it doesn't matter. We shall believe what we believe. END.

    Economy of California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    California has historically derived significant revenue from international trade and tourism. However, the state's share of America's merchandise export trade has been steadily shrinking since 2000, from 15.4% to 11.1% in 2008. [2][3] The exports of goods made in California totaled $134 billion in 2007. $48 billion of that total was computers and electronics, followed by transportation, non-electrical machinery, agriculture, and chemicals. California trade and exports translate into high-paying jobs for over one million Californians. According to the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis, in 2005, foreign-controlled companies employed 542,600 California workers, the most of any state. Major sources of foreign investment in California in 2005 were Japan, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, France, and Germany. Foreign investment in California was responsible for 4.2 percent of the state's total private-industry employment in 2005.[4] Total direct travel spending in California reached $96.7 billion in 2007, a 3.6% increase over the preceding year.[5] Los Angeles County receives the most tourism in the state.[6]

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