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  1. #41
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007


    He'll still be incarcerated. Just not in a jail. This option makes sense for some offenders.
    There's reason to be afraid, and reason to open your heart. ~ Seal

    Refreshment for your ears:

  2. #42
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    5w6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I'm good.
    Ha, it wasn't for you, silly.

    I was joking about the euthanasia.. just to clarify.

    My 2cents regarding the initial post/news article...

    What happened to the vicitim is a terrible tragedy. That goes without saying.

    How this mentally ill person's destructive nature was not recognized /addressed beforehand is a little beyond me, though I imagine it is possible for some mentally ill to succeed in maintaining their composure day-to-day, for the most part, until something this totally fucking insane occurs. Perhaps a combo of that factor and a little general public ignorance/apathy... This too, is a tragedy in of itself.

    Regardless of the hows and whys... no one's saying this murder isn't the assailant's fault, that his actions did not cause the death of the victim. They're saying he's mentally ill, and lacked the capacity to understand those actions or their impact/consequences. Y'know, like many other types of mentally handicapped people. The way I see it.. simply put, mental illnesses can render various parts of the brain handicapped. Just like certain other physical ailments can render various body parts numb/immobile/otherwise useless by some sort of motor dysfuntion. Unfortunately the potential complications that can arise from untreated mental illnesses can prove just as dangerous not only for the individual, but the population at large... as it seems that, very rarely will people with serious mental illnesses even have the capacity to recognize the symptoms of their condition, & thus fail to seek proper medical attention before something like this happens. Of course by then, the condition has to be addressed, but only from an outside source, & only when it's too late to save lives.

    Point being.. I don't really think this crazy fucking guy understood what the hell he was doing, at all. And as awful as his actions were, his responsibility for those actions are placed in a different category for this reason.
    I don't think it's black or white, innocent or guilty. It's a spectrum. This obviously falling in the gray area of that spectrum.

    I mean, Let's say the bus driver had narcolepsy (yeah I realize it's quite unlikely a narcoleptic would have a license let alone a driving job, but just go w/me for now), and made the conscious choice that morning not to take whatever medications to control his symptoms. He forgot to refill his RX and was just going to do it on a break later or something.
    However, let's say before he has that opportunity, he passes out/falls asleep driving, flips the bus, & kills several passengers onboard. Could he help being narcoleptic? No, but he was well aware of his condition, and the possible consequences of not controlling his symptoms. If this hypothetical bus driver didn't have to face criminal charges, I would be outraged, and I imagine others would be as well. He knowingly put the lives of others at risk. Black end of the spectrum. Guilty in all respects.

    Say instead that the bus driver had a congenital heart condition that went unnoticed his entire life, in spite of maintaining fair health/going for checkups regularly. He goes to work, and suffers sudden cardiac arrest behind the wheel. Bus flips. Several passengers die. Miraculously, the driver is revived before sudden cardiac death can occur.

    Do you think anyone would hold him criminally responsible for the accident that caused the death of his passengers? I highly doubt it. It doesn't mean this accident couldn't have been prevented possibly; I'm sure his condition might've been caught by a different doctor, perhaps. Perhaps not.
    It doesn't mean those people weren't killed as a direct result of the his medical condition. It simply means he had no control over it.
    See where I'm going with this?

    A highly secure mental hospital is the appropriate place for someone who has no grasp on reality, no control over his actions, & is a danger to himself/others. He requires supervision/treatments/antipsychotic meds that corrections officers & prison wardens simply cannot provide.

    Throw the hypothetical bus driver w/the cardiac problems into prison rather than a hospital. Let's suggest the medical care is sub-par in that place, & this guy needs daily care/strict supervision.
    Sorry pallie, no EKGs for you this week.
    C'mon.. that's fair, right?
    I mean, he did kill those people.

    I believe this is a case where the judicial system actually made the most "just" decision in the end.

    What this man did was sick. Because he is sick.
    My sympathies for the victim, all who knew him, & all who witnessed this nightmare.
    And also for the assailant. I hope that his sick mind can someday become stabilized/healthy with proper treatment, though for some reason I do find it difficult to imagine him ever functioning completely free in society again...
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!

    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  3. #43
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008


    Is Mr. Li sick?

    If he did sincerely believe God wanted him to kill McLean because he was a force of evil, he could still be morally responsible for failing to know that this wasn't the case.

    If he was rational enough to go about life without being diagnosed for so long, then perhaps there's nothing wrong with his cognitive faculties? Even if he did hear voices, or see things, or whatever, shouldn't a rational agent question if what the voices are telling him is true?

    Mr. Li isn't the only person to believe that God tells him to kill people who are forces of evil, and belief in bodily resurrection is common.

    Minimally, neither the article nor Mr. Li's act has convinced me that he was incapable of knowing what he did was wrong.

  4. #44
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    Even the most primitive societies have a respect for the insane.

    If you had a dog that went mad, out of respect, you would have him destroyed.

    Maybe Mr Li's stay in Bedlam will destroy him, in a civilised way of course; and one which nobody gets guilty about pulling the trigger. Which would really do Mr Li the biggest of all favours.

  5. #45


    I'm sure it's been said lots already, but he is pretty obviously mentally ill, and it wouldn't have taken geniuses on the jury to see that. I think the verdict is correct. Justice is overrated anyway.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #46
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    There are too many cases like this.
    It wouldn't surprise me, if Mr Li had history, but slipped through the cracks of the mental health system. It would have been ideal, if he received the help required before he came to the point he did. The victim wouldn't be dead and his family wouldn't be suffering.
    I'm sure Mr Li's family is suffering too, and have been suffering for a long time.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.


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