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  1. #1
    Armchair Explorer Doctor Anaximander's Avatar
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    Default Sins and misconduct of organized religion


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    Has a bit of a feel of same of same old to be honest.

    I dont know how much there would be of this if it wasnt paying, so maybe its not religion but consumerism that's at fault.

    Its like a lot of things, if people think all they need to do is flash the cash they'll do that, its why there's such money paid out to gyms and PTs and we dont live in a society where everyone looks like Mr Universe.

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    J.M.P.P. R.I.P. B5: RLOAI Kephalos's Avatar
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    I do not know where the error lies. I do not pretend to set people right, but I do see that they are often wrong. -- Jane Austen, Mansfield Park.

    I wish as well as everybody else to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else it must be in my own way. -- Jane Austen, Sense and Sensibility.

    She was not often invited to join in the conversation of the others, nor did she desire it. Her own thoughts and reflections were habitually her best companions. -- Jane Austen, Mansfield Park.

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    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    To be honest I think @Lark's right in a sense. Christianity is one of the oldest cultural structures in the world and they're going to have a laundry list of baggage. Religions in general share that. Show me any state or bureaucracy or organizational structure that has NOT committed some atrocity if it's lasted for 100 years. It's practically a prerequisite.


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    Phase-shifted beam Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    To be honest I think @Lark's right in a sense. Christianity is one of the oldest cultural structures in the world and they're going to have a laundry list of baggage. Religions in general share that. Show me any state or bureaucracy or organizational structure that has NOT committed some atrocity if it's lasted for 100 years. It's practically a prerequisite.
    It is understandable that there is baggage. It is unforgivable if they at least don't acknowledge it and keep working to make amends and do better.
    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. ~ Buddha

  6. #6
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is understandable that there is baggage. It is unforgivable if they at least don't acknowledge it and keep working to make amends and do better.
    Yeah.

    I guess I don't know what the novelty or intrigue is in interrogating the "sins and misconduct of organized religion" is and I certainly don't have 45 minutes to waste on what I figured out when I was 15. If there's anything particularly interesting the OP should pick out a highlight or a timestamp to get us discussing.



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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Russell Moore’s Exit From the Southern Baptist Convention - The Atlantic

    Moore’s letter was leaked to Religion News Service (RNS) a few weeks after he resigned from the ERLC. And on June 1, Immanuel Nashville, a church not affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, announced that Moore would become its pastor in residence. Which means that one of the most important figures in the SBC has completely broken with the denomination he has been a part of for virtually his entire life.

    Moore’s 4,000-word letter explains why.

    His departure was not primarily prompted, as many people had assumed, by his role as an outspoken critic of Donald Trump, although that had clearly upset powerful members within the politically and theologically conservative denomination. Instead, the letter suggests, the breach was caused by the stands he had taken against sexual abuse within the SBC and on racial reconciliation, which had infuriated the executive committee. The chair of the executive committee at the time, Mike Stone, is now running for SBC president. According to RNS, “Supporters have touted Moore’s resignation as proof of Stone’s effectiveness as a leader.” (Stone released a statement in response to Moore’s letter, alleging that it contained “numerous misrepresentations,” and calling it an attempt to influence the coming denominational election.)

    “The presenting issue here is that, first and foremost, of sexual abuse,” Moore wrote. “This Executive Committee, through their bylaws workgroup, ‘exonerated’ churches, in a spur-of-the-moment meeting, from serious charges of sexual abuse cover-up...”

    ...But confronting sexual abuse wasn’t the only issue dividing Moore from the SBC executive committee. “The other absolutely draining and unrelenting issue has been that of racial reconciliation,” Moore wrote. “My family and I have faced constant threats from white nationalists and white supremacists, including within our convention. Some of them have been involved in neo-Confederate activities going back for years. Some are involved with groups funded by white nationalist nativist organizations. Some of them have just expressed raw racist sentiment, behind closed doors.”

    Moore cited specific examples: “One SBC leader who was at the forefront of these behind-closed-doors assaults had already ripped me to shreds verbally for saying, in 2011, that the Southern Baptist Convention should elect an African-American president,” he wrote. “This same leader told a gathering that ‘The Conservative Resurgence is like the Civil War, except this time unlike the last one, the right side won.’ I walked out of that gathering, as did one of you.”

    Moore also mentioned an SBC leader who, during a discussion about Black victims of police violence, had asserted that “only those with guns would prevent black people from burning down all of our cities...”


    Hillsong Pastor Accuses Carl Lentz Of Sex Abuse Scandal

    Hillsong Church boasts many celebrity attendees, churches in 30 countries, and an average global attendance of 150,000 people a week. But controversy and allegations of sexual abuse, homophobia, and toxic leadership have followed the megachurch since it was founded in 1983. Now, Leona Kimes, a pastor at Hillsong Boston, is coming forward about the abuse, bullying, and exploitation she faced while working for a Hillsong New York pastor. Although she did not mention disgraced Hillsong New York figurehead Carl Lentz by name, Religion News Service confirmed that he was Kimes' employer and pastor at the time.
    In a May 31 statement published on Medium, Kimes wrote that she and her husband, Josh, moved to the U.S. from Sydney, Australia to help build the Australia-based megachurch's New York chapter in 2011. Today, Kimes and Josh are both pastors for Hillsong Boston, but at the time, only Josh worked as a pastor. Kimes, meanwhile, was tasked with working as a nanny, housekeeper, and personal assistant for Hillsong New York's co-founder, 42-year-old Lentz, and his wife, Laura. She says that while working in that capacity, Lentz subjected her to seven years of bullying, manipulation, and sexual abuse, and she felt powerless to speak up as Hillsong New York grew bigger and bigger...

    Well, Lark's issue is that he's always feeling the need to defend the Catholic church, even when it's not even really the topic.

    Mark Driscoll (featured in the video above) isn't from the Catholic church. The two articles I read this morning, incidentally, aren't about the Catholic church either. So why do Catholics keep getting dragged into the discussion? (Oh, gee, the sexual abuse scandals. Weird,huh?)

    But in any case, the SBC is not nearly as old, and Hillsong and the like are much younger. But same old stuff -- abuse of power, racism, and sexual abuse / sexist behavior. Even the "young" denominations seem to exhibit the same sort of problems as their Catholic older sibling.

    At best, one can say that church walls provide a safe haven and a ready-built power structure for those who would support these things; at worst, one could try to argue that there are particular tenets that contribute to a propensity of these thoughts and behaviors.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"
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  8. #8
    Armchair Explorer Doctor Anaximander's Avatar
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    I see the same criticisms of religion all the time, nothing new here, we live in a really secular society and the focus remains the same as though the world has not actually moved on.

    In a certain sense I could play the game of questioning whether you would know the "sins and misconduct" of religion, if you did not have religion in the first place to supply you with an understanding of what "sins and misconduct" where but that could be a bit too meta.

    I mean why make any sort of a point when you can post a string of news stories about abuse and misconduct?

    As though it where religion that caused it and not a bunch of people choosing to be human, all too human.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is understandable that there is baggage. It is unforgivable if they at least don't acknowledge it and keep working to make amends and do better.
    You dont feel that has happened?

    I mean you might feel that way but...

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