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  1. #101
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    May 2008


    To me it's like team spirit. It's just plain foolish and counterproductive to belong to a team and not support it.

    Get in there and work for change but don't end up being part of the problem in the process.

    Break it down to a microcosm: A household. If you can't live there and be part of what keeps the house up and running, move over and let someone else have it. Find something better and work at that household.

    It almost strikes me as a national trait of low self-esteem to belong to something and then do nothing constructive but continue to bad-mouth it.

    Evokes thoughts of Groucho. "Any club that would have me as a member I dont want to belong to." Hee.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #102
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    I like French culture, but that doesn't imply I'm always proud of everything my country has done in the past.

    I am often stunned how beautiful my country is, how lucky I am to live in such an interesting place, during those times. I think that aesthetically speaking, Paris is simply beyond compare with any other large city in the world. Or maybe Rome? (Italy and France have so much in common)
    But that subjective sense of beauty is not related to chauvinism or nationalism. Not at all.

    I often fall in love with culture and art, not with politics.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  3. #103


    I don't love my government or a lot of what they do, but I love my country and being Australian. And I would never wish to identify as anything else.

    Your country is more than some people who get voted in and make decisions, and it is more than a group or society. It is the land you grew up with and the place you are from. It holds something far deeper than politics. And in that sense I'll always be a patriot.

    Here's a bit of Australiana for you . (I couldn't be bothered correcting the punctuation)

    The love of field and coppice,
    Of green and shaded lanes.
    Of ordered woods and gardens
    Is running in your veins,
    Strong love of grey-blue distance
    Brown streams and soft dim skies
    I know but cannot share it,
    My love is otherwise.

    I love a sunburnt country,
    A land of sweeping plains,
    Of ragged mountain ranges,
    Of droughts and flooding rains.
    I love her far horizons,
    I love her jewel-sea,
    Her beauty and her terror -
    The wide brown land for me!

    A stark white ring-barked forest
    All tragic to the moon,
    The sapphire-misted mountains,
    The hot gold hush of noon.
    Green tangle of the brushes,
    Where lithe lianas coil,
    And orchids deck the tree-tops
    And ferns the warm dark soil.

    Core of my heart, my country!
    Her pitiless blue sky,
    When sick at heart, around us,
    We see the cattle die-
    But then the grey clouds gather,
    And we can bless again
    The drumming of an army,
    The steady, soaking rain.

    Core of my heart, my country!
    Land of the Rainbow Gold,
    For flood and fire and famine,
    She pays us back threefold-
    Over the thirsty paddocks,
    Watch, after many days,
    The filmy veil of greenness
    That thickens as we gaze.

    An opal-hearted country,
    A wilful, lavish land-
    All you who have not loved her,
    You will not understand-
    Though earth holds many splendours,
    Wherever I may die,
    I know to what brown country
    My homing thoughts will fly.

    Dorothea Mackellar
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  4. #104
    Member Chukamok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    I'm very suspicious of patriotism and nationalism in general. I understand where it comes from and why it's there from an evolutionary point, but I think that it's really more maladaptive now that we live in societies of 300 million people rather than 50. But naturally, it's not just going to disappear, as it's as genuine an emotion as the feeling of jealousy or joy.

    On the topic of foreign input, I'm all for this. I'm also all for more global democracy and organization, such as the UN.
    I'm not big on patriotism/nationalism either. It's just another vehicle for division not unlike politics and religion.

  5. #105
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've met quite a few supposedly intelligent people over the years who have argued to me that it's wrong not to support your country- even if it's royally f-ing things up.

    I've been informed that the real meaning of patriotism is to stick by your country no matter what it does (kind of like "stand by your man" I guess), and that my criticism of certain decisions made by the government means that I'm not a patriotic citizen.

    Is criticizing your country a lack of patriotism or a form of it?

    Are there times when a citizen should STFU and support what thier country is doing even if they disagree?
    I don't really believe in the idea of supporting your country no matter what. Blind loyalty is not my cup of tea.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Aug 2010


    Fiat iustitia ruat caelum.

  7. #107
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    Sometimes I feel patriotic about other peoples cultures and countries.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  8. #108
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010


    For instance?

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