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Cancel culture is fine in some cases

Mole

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i rarely find myself agreeing with you... this is a pleasant deviation from that trend...

post script:

i am not sure the word narcissists was requisite...

Seeing how rare is your agreement with me, I withdraw the word 'narcissist', in the hope of tempting you to be agreeable.
 

Virtual ghost

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Cancel culture is a dress rehearsal, we know what they did in the 20th century, and they want to do it again, click Cancel Culture is a Dress Rehearsal for Mass Murder | Stefan Molyneux - YouTube.


This is terribly simplistic, towards this logic my country/culture shouldn't have engaged in canceling the legacy of our Communist government or our Fascist government ... and a few other dictatorships we had. As a matter of fact many of our current social problem are arising from the fact that this process didn't go far enough. Therefore in the bottom line cancel culture is basically just a tool that can be used for good or bad stuff. Since some things evidently need to be canceled (before they cancel quite a number of other subjects). In other words: good luck with defending Australia from China without cancel culture.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Molyneaux has a tendency to go in the deep end with his hyperbole
 

Doctor Cringelord

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This is terribly simplistic, towards this logic my country/culture shouldn't have engaged in canceling the legacy of our Communist government or our Fascist government ... and a few other dictatorships we had. As a matter of fact many of our current social problem are arising from the fact that this process didn't go far enough. Therefore in the bottom line cancel culture is basically just a tool that can be used for good or bad stuff. Since some things evidently need to be canceled (before they cancel quite a number of other subjects). In other words: good luck with defending Australia from China without cancel culture.

Agreed. Some ideas have been tried to disastrous results, and are therefore worth either cancelling or undergoing extreme revision. Colonialism, Fascism, authoritarian Communism, Fundamentalism, unregulated Capitalism all jump to mind.
 

Mole

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Marxism in the 20th century killed 100 million of their own people, not the enemy, but their own people, over 70 years across the world.

This is documented in the famous book by a group of Left Wing French historians in their book called, "The Black Book of Communism", click Full text of "The Black Book of Communism".

And to hear about, "The Black Book of Communism", click The Black Book of Communism - YouTube.

The Marxists realised they could not defeat Capitalism on economic grounds, so they began their campaign to defeat Capitalism in the cultural sphere. And so the Marxists began their Long March through our cultural institutions, culminating with Cancel Culture.
 

Virtual ghost

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Agreed. Some ideas have been tried to disastrous results, and are therefore worth either cancelling or undergoing extreme revision. Colonialism, Fascism, authoritarian Communism, Fundamentalism, unregulated Capitalism all jump to mind.


Yeah, as I said before: I don't think that average western person fully understands what you get when you cancel the cancel culture.



On my formal high school photos of the entire class I have people giving Nazi salutes. Also on TV I have talks shows that openly glorify fascist movement and toy with "history books".
On the other hand I have people still celebrating various Communist holidays and there are streets and squares still named after various Communist icons. Many local authorities are flirting and making friendships with totalitarian countries like Russia, China and their satellites. Through which help they are undoing our legal system and media freedoms. Plus they are selling them assets in exchange for dark money or whatever. Also I have foreign war criminals and rapists walking around the country, since the state decided to forget the crimes done against itself and it's people. Plus from the roof I see mountains in the neighboring country and there are Islamist camps in those hills. Which are pretending to be villages, since someone from outside bough the whole half abandoned villages for peanuts.


Therefore I am kinda allergic to all western people who think that freedom of speech is something of ultimate value. Since here basically all social problems are starting from the fact that cancel culture and therefore deradicalization didn't go far enough. If there is something that will cost us darely this is evidently it.
 

ceecee

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Yeah, as I said before: I don't think that average western person fully understands what you get when you cancel the cancel culture.



On my formal high school photos of the entire class I have people giving Nazi salutes. Also on TV I have talks shows that openly glorify fascist movement and toy with "history books".
On the other hand I have people still celebrating various Communist holidays and there are streets and squares still named after various Communist icons. Many local authorities are flirting and making friendships with totalitarian countries like Russia, China and their satellites. Through which help they are undoing our legal system and media freedoms. Plus they are selling them assets in exchange for dark money or whatever. Also I have foreign war criminals and rapists walking around the country, since the state decided to forget the crimes done against itself and it's people. Plus from the roof I see mountains in the neighboring country and there are Islamist camps in those hills. Which are pretending to be villages, since someone from outside bough the whole half abandoned villages for peanuts.


Therefore I am kinda allergic to all western people who think that freedom of speech is something of ultimate value. Since here basically all social problems are starting from the fact that cancel culture and therefore deradicalization didn't go far enough. If there is something that will cost us darely this is evidently it.

I pretty much blame the ACLU for perpetuating this shit. They made changes yes, but it's far too late.
 

Virtual ghost

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I pretty much blame the ACLU for perpetuating this shit. They made changes yes, but it's far too late.



Radical ideologies in all of their forms really are like disease in the terms of spreading, especially if local landscape is generally dysfunctional. Therefore this has to be countered with deliberate efforts in order to sort this out in the right way.


The same is what they did with economy: free trade, free trade and then the jobs went where is the largest concentration of people who have minimal rights and elections don't exist even formally. Since that was seen as "profitable and simple". So now we have booming and assertive dictatorships and mass poverty in democracies. What was pretty predictable outcome if you know anything about economy, politics or history.
Problems sorting themselves out is a fantasy and advancement simply requires deliberate and active effort. Otherwise you will quickly take a swim in sewer.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I pretty much blame the ACLU for perpetuating this shit. They made changes yes, but it's far too late.

My main issue is how harmful speech is determined, and by whom. I could see Republicans or shitty centrist Democrats using it as a cudgel against someone like Rashida Talib or Ilhan Omar, for instance. I definitely remember supporters of the Iraq War throwing around charges of antisemitism against opponents, for instance. (One guy who did this constantly on another site I posted on had a Hillary Clinton avatar, and of course he wasn't Jewish.)

I don't think Holocaust denial, for instance, contributes anything of value to discussions, but I'm not sure I want to place the power to decide acceptable speech in the hands of the sorts of people who would probably end up making those decisions.
 

Mole

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Yeah, as I said before: I don't think that average western person fully understands what you get when you cancel the cancel culture.



On my formal high school photos of the entire class I have people giving Nazi salutes. Also on TV I have talks shows that openly glorify fascist movement and toy with "history books".
On the other hand I have people still celebrating various Communist holidays and there are streets and squares still named after various Communist icons. Many local authorities are flirting and making friendships with totalitarian countries like Russia, China and their satellites. Through which help they are undoing our legal system and media freedoms. Plus they are selling them assets in exchange for dark money or whatever. Also I have foreign war criminals and rapists walking around the country, since the state decided to forget the crimes done against itself and it's people. Plus from the roof I see mountains in the neighboring country and there are Islamist camps in those hills. Which are pretending to be villages, since someone from outside bough the whole half abandoned villages for peanuts.


Therefore I am kinda allergic to all western people who think that freedom of speech is something of ultimate value. Since here basically all social problems are starting from the fact that cancel culture and therefore deradicalization didn't go far enough. If there is something that will cost us darely this is evidently it.

The essence of liberal democracy is the limitation of power, and free speech is necessary for liberal democracy to work

We notice authoritarians, totalitarians, radical religion, cults, and ideologues of the left and right, make it their priority to smother free speech. They do this because they know free speech stands between them and power.

In response to the totalitarians of the 20th century we wrote, signed, and ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, enshrining free speech as s human right
 

Mole

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My main issue is how harmful speech is determined, and by whom. I could see Republicans or shitty centrist Democrats using it as a cudgel against someone like Rashida Talib or Ilhan Omar, for instance. I definitely remember supporters of the Iraq War throwing around charges of antisemitism against opponents, for instance. (One guy who did this constantly on another site I posted on had a Hillary Clinton avatar, and of course he wasn't Jewish.)

I don't think Holocaust denial, for instance, contributes anything of value to discussions, but I'm not sure I want to place the power to decide acceptable speech in the hands of the sorts of people who would probably end up making those decisions.

Yes, free speech is indivisible My free speech is your free speech.
 

Hypatia

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I don't know. I think I can see both sides of the issue. In an ideal society, people would have "free speech," but self-discipline is more important than free speech.
 

Hypatia

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So how do we make sure our civilization promotes the "right" kinds of free speech and discourages the "wrong" kind without breaching into totalitarianism?
 

Hypatia

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Yes, I am writing in a telegraphic medium for the simple minded victims of a business cult.

I don't know, I feel like the answer kind of depends on simple math to me, but I'm not entirely certain.
 

Mole

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So how do we make sure our civilization promotes the "right" kinds of free speech and discourages the "wrong" kind without breaching into totalitarianism?

Under free speech in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights there is no right free speech and no wrong free speech.

Those who seek unlimited power first want the power to limit speech. They want to tell us what to say, and what to think, and who we say it to.
 

Hypatia

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Under free speech in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights there is no right free speech and no wrong free speech.

Those who seek unlimited power first want the power to limit speech. They want to tell us what to say, and what to think, and who we say it to.

Sometimes discipline of speech does not necessarily entail totalitarianism.
 
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