Will you take the COVID vaccine in 2021?

[Virtual ghost]

But you are assuming that people that are not taking the vaccine are going to do lockdowns forever, which is something very unlikely to happen, antivax either will or already had dropped lockdown.

Yes, but that doesn't matter (and you not focusing on the core problem).
In other words such environment generally lack the means or discipline to do the lockdown right. What means that the only thing left on the table is vaccine. Therefore if plenty of people don't take it that kinda suggests that there is no solution of the problem if people don't change their minds. Especially since everything suggests you can eventually get infected again and we still have PLENTY of people who didn't get it even the first time. But they don't want vaccine (or strong lockdown). What is opening the core question of now what ? Since the world obviously can't take this for another few years and people are rejecting solutions.

 

[Vendrah]

Yes, but that doesn't matter (and you not focusing on the core problem).
In other words such environment generally lack the means or discipline to do the lockdown right. What means that the only thing left on the table is vaccine. Therefore if plenty of people don't take it that kinda suggests that there is no solution of the problem if people don't change their minds. Especially since everything suggests you can eventually get infected again and we still have PLENTY of people who didn't get it even the first time. But they don't want vaccine (or strong lockdown). What is opening the core question of now what ? Since the world obviously can't take this for another few years and people are rejecting solutions.

Now what?
The answer is actually cruel, but is their fault.

Now what is that 1-2%, 5-10% depending on the groups, are going to die.
Now what is that a lot of them are going to have health issues that are going to make them die earlier.
Cruel, yeah. Can I do something about it? Not really, Whatsapp lies are way more powerful than me. I can't fight them.
But at least that is not going to happen with those who took the vaccine.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

I've been learning a good bit about the possible vaccines in my pharmacology class and if I am required to take it, I feel no qualms doing so. Of course it depends on the source, but there are a couple of candidates out there with relatively high efficacy rates at the moment that could potentially be released. Unless it gets an emergency release order and doesn't finish up phase 3 testing, a detailed background about the symptoms of the vaccine should be released by the time it comes out.

Of course, hopefully they don't go full release of the vaccine until people who are at high risk for the more severe side effects of covid are addressed. Personally, I have no contact with anyone whom I know is in danger of being strongly effected by this (although there's only so much you can predict), I'd rather the elderly or those with chronic illness be treated before me.

In other words if COVID really is fundamentally like flu that means you can get it over and over again. Especially since most diseases work like that. What means that herd immunity is at best herd resistance and the problem will not solve itself out on it's own. Since diseases don't really work like that for the most part.

This is not necessarily correct. People get the flu more than once because antigen markers on the surface of the virus change with different flu strains and do so often, which makes it difficult to combat. From my understanding, I don't think we know if covid is this way or not yet. Yes, we know that sars can also make different strains like other viruses, but it has not been suggested that the reason is the prior (to my awareness, the detection process for covid has remained relatively the same and there has been no sign of massive change in markers, but if I am wrong I don't mind being corrected on this). Studies suggest that possible other reasons are because covid can stay dormant in peoples bodies overtime (like chicken pocks/shingles), or because when the body mounts an immune response, there is a finite period of times that memory cells capable of recognizing covid stay within the body or for various other reasons.

You make a reasonable point about herd immunity though. The biggest thing is going to rely on people making safe choices and the vaccine being effective enough to work for a sustained period of time or that it gets out to enough people that the problem can be minimized to those who are more likely to be able to "handle" the virus. It's definitely not going to be a problem that just goes away, I'm hoping once the vaccines or a more suitable care method comes out, it becomes somewhat more "akin" to how we handle the flu and that death rates can be minimized.
Edit: Or rather minimized to a degree where the health industry will be able to handle it in addition to other virus's that go around.

 

[Lia_kat]

I'm a front line health-care worker, so I don't think I'll have a choice. My job will probably make it mandatory.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Now what?
The answer is actually cruel, but is their fault.

Now what is that 1-2%, 5-10% depending on the groups, are going to die.
Now what is that a lot of them are going to have health issues that are going to make them die earlier.
Cruel, yeah. Can I do something about it? Not really, Whatsapp lies are way more powerful than me. I can't fight them.
But at least that is not going to happen with those who took the vaccine.

Yeap, it will be cruel.
But the damage should be quite severe. Because when any precautions in medical and economic sense ends the social damage will become severe. Especially since mortality goes radically up if you overwhelm healthcare systems. Plus the economy will be spoiled for everybody if half of the people in X country continue to have corona party for the foreseeable future. Also since this effect will not be equally in play around the world the global map will change in the terms of how power is distributed.


So this will go far beyond simple pain and cruelty.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is not necessarily correct. People get the flu more than once because antigen markers on the surface of the virus change with different flu strains and do so often, which makes it difficult to combat. From my understanding, I don't think we know if covid is this way or not yet. Yes, we know that sars can also make different strains like other viruses, but it has not been suggested that the reason is the prior (to my awareness, the detection process for covid has remained relatively the same and there has been no sign of massive change in markers, but if I am wrong I don't mind being corrected on this). Studies suggest that possible other reasons are because covid can stay dormant in peoples bodies overtime (like chicken pocks/shingles), or because when the body mounts an immune response, there is a finite period of times that memory cells capable of recognizing covid stay within the body or for various other reasons.

You make a reasonable point about herd immunity though. The biggest thing is going to rely on people making safe choices and the vaccine being effective enough to work for a sustained period of time or that it gets out to enough people that the problem can be minimized to those who are more likely to be able to "handle" the virus. It's definitely not going to be a problem that just goes away, I'm hoping once the vaccines or a more suitable care method comes out, it becomes somewhat more "akin" to how we handle the flu and that death rates can be minimized.

That is why the 4th word in my post is "if". This still isn't fully certain but most diseases can be caught a number of times, so that is probably the case with COVID as well on the long run. Plus I put a link about how they are isolating a top level political figure even if he evidently had COVID. What indicates noticing of danger. After all if it is true that resistance drops after a few months then he is once again vulnerable. What indicates my point that this problem will never solve itself on it's own and it will requite "medical interventions(s)". Which many are rejecting and that obviously creates unsustainable situation on the long run.

 

[Vendrah]

Yeap, it will be cruel.
But the damage should be quite severe. Because when any precautions in medical and economic sense ends the social damage will become severe. Especially since mortality goes radically up if you overwhelm healthcare systems. Plus the economy will be spoiled for everybody if half of the people in X country continue to have corona party for the foreseeable future. Also since this effect will not be equally in play around the world the global map will change in the terms of how power is distributed.


So this will go far beyond simple pain and cruelty.

I already indirectly suffer from that kind of stuff anyways...

 

[Virtual ghost]

I already indirectly suffer from that kind of stuff anyways...

True, but without vaccines we could freely believe that our current situation is meant to be. While with vaccine on the table things should get a lot more "philosophical" in that regard.

 

[Vendrah]

True, but without vaccines we could freely believe that our current situation is meant to be. While with vaccine on the table things should get a lot more "philosophical" in that regard.

I really wish people around me were more ethical-honest and less stupid, specially the former.
They are just way too busy into looking ethical-honest while they are not and just looking intelligent when they do nothing effectively to become smarter. Just narcissism.
Sorry for the rant. I am tired of paying for their "sins".

 

[SD45T-2]

Silly tangents aside, I have no idea. I don't work in healthcare or public safety, I'm not elderly, and I don't have preexisting conditions that increase my risk, so even if a vaccine hit the market tomorrow it probably wouldn't be available to me for a very long time.

 

[Kasper]

This is such a strange question to me; there's a global health crisis that has changed life as we know it and brings death or long term health complications to the worst cases, if a safe vaccine is provided it's not a question I'm going to be pondering; Of course I will.

Are most of the people saying "not sure" or "no" American?

 

[Vendrah]

This is such a strange question to me; there's a global health crisis that has changed life as we know it and brings death or long term health complications to the worst cases, if a safe vaccine is provided it's not a question I'm going to be pondering; Of course I will.

Are most of the people saying "not sure" or "no" American?

I was kind of asking myself the same thing...Like not even half of the thread is sure that is going to take it?

 

[ceecee]

For anyone wondering why an American would say no there are two reasons...

Cost: It will be in the thousands of dollars and millions of people have no insurance coverage to pay for it. The idea of the vaccine being free is They can't even COVID test for free, even though companies have been given federal funds to do just that.

Zero trust in govt: That should not be a surprise to anyone paying even limited attention.

Once I know it's safe, I'll take it. But I'll be far down the list so it's going to be some time anyway.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Yes; even though I tested positive for COVID-19 (I feel no symptoms now, thankfully), there's still not much knowledge on how long natural immunity and antibodies last after infection. Once I feel assured it's safe and that people in vulnerable, high-risk populations receive the vaccine, I'll take it.

Anecdotally, my dad was enrolled in a vaccine trial with a pharma company; he told me he felt some mild symptoms the day after, but feels fine now.

 

[Red Herring]

For anyone wondering why an American would say no there are two reasons...

Cost: It will be in the thousands of dollars and millions of people have no insurance coverage to pay for it. The idea of the vaccine being free is They can't even COVID test for free, even though companies have been given federal funds to do just that.

I just read an article in Manager Magazin stating that there will be three price levels for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (the one developed in Germany): one for poor, one for medium wealthy and one for wealthy countries. The production costs including personnel and logistics are 7$ per dosage. In Brazil it will be offered for 2.50$, in the USA for 19.50$ . Since you need two dosages that would be 39$ per person for the USA. The price in Europe will be somewhere between 10 and 20 Dollars, lower than in America because the EU has already invested in the project.

This is in part due to the international platform COVAX, an cooperative project of the global vaccination alliance Gavi, the research alliance CEPI (Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations) and the World Health Organization.

The German minister of health briefly thought out loud if maybe Germany should be allowed to call dips on the first supplies but was immediately told off by Merkel who insisted that the vaccine was a "global public good". The owner of Curevac, another German biotech company likely to also soon present a vaccine, has also gone public months ago saying the vaccine should be a public good and available to the whole world at or near production cost.


I'm not sure yet what the Moderna or Astra Zeneca price will be. But they will likely have to compete with the basically-at-cost price of the Europeans.


EDIT: I just read that back in August Moderna stated they'd charge about 35 $ per dosage, so roughly twice the price of the Pfizer/BioNTEch one but still reasonable.

 

[Red Herring]

I also just checked the current price for a PCR test over here. If there is a medical indication it costs 39.40 Euro (about 40 $) and is covered by insurance (which by law everybody has to have). If you want to do one privately without any medical indication, for example because it is required before bording an airplane, it can cost you up to 160 Euros out of your own pocket (about 190 $).

 

[Red Herring]

To be clear: There are two reasons why the vaccine is so cheap. First of all because, believe it or not, not everybody is a crossover between Dr. Evil and Gordon Gecko and secondly because the producers are negotiating directly with governments bulk buying and cutting out the free market middle men who would increase the price to line their own pockets.

Yay, groovy globalist socialism, baby!

 

[Virtual ghost]

I just read an article in Manager Magazin stating that there will be three price levels for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (the one developed in Germany): one for poor, one for medium wealthy and one for wealthy countries. The production costs including personnel and logistics are 7$ per dosage. In Brazil it will be offered for 2.50$, in the USA for 19.50$ . Since you need two dosages that would be 39$ per person for the USA. The price in Europe will be somewhere between 10 and 20 Dollars, lower than in America because the EU has already invested in the project.

This is in part due to the international platform COVAX, an cooperative project of the global vaccination alliance Gavi, the research alliance CEPI (Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations) and the World Health Organization.

The German minister of health briefly thought out loud if maybe Germany should be allowed to call dips on the first supplies but was immediately told off by Merkel who insisted that the vaccine was a "global public good". The owner of Curevac, another German biotech company likely to also soon present a vaccine, has also gone public months ago saying the vaccine should be a public good and available to the whole world at or near production cost.


I'm not sure yet what the Moderna or Astra Zeneca price will be. But they will likely have to compete with the basically-at-cost price of the Europeans.


EDIT: I just read that back in August Moderna stated they'd charge about 35 $ per dosage, so roughly twice the price of the Pfizer/BioNTEch one but still reasonable.

Yes, in Europe vaccine will probably be cheap as well as probably free for the end user. However I am not sure that they will not invent some kind of middle man across the Atlantic. It is enough that the government doesn't get too involved and the whole concept will start to fall apart. Especially since the people are not mentally set to expect that the government will do something like this. Even if the whole country is at stake. To you and me it is normal that the biggest medical bill we ever paid is 120$ but over there things don't seem to work like that. Therefore I would like to be wrong about this but I am not sure that this is done deal. Actually if I am not mistaken their politics deliberately pulled them out of this "global public good" program.

 

[ceecee]

Yes, in Europe vaccine will probably be cheap as well as probably free for the end user. However I am not sure that they will not invent some kind of middle man across the Atlantic. It is enough that the government doesn't get too involved and the whole concept will start to fall apart. Especially since the people are not mentally set to expect that the government will do something like this. Even if the whole country is at stake. To you and me it is normal that the biggest medical bill we ever paid is 120$ but over there things don't seem to work like that. Therefore I would like to be wrong about this but I am not sure that this is done deal. Actually if I am not mistaken their politics deliberately pulled them out of this "global public good" program.

Exactly.

 

[Vendrah]

I just read an article in Manager Magazin stating that there will be three price levels for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (the one developed in Germany): one for poor, one for medium wealthy and one for wealthy countries. The production costs including personnel and logistics are 7$ per dosage. In Brazil it will be offered for 2.50$, in the USA for 19.50$ . Since you need two dosages that would be 39$ per person for the USA. The price in Europe will be somewhere between 10 and 20 Dollars, lower than in America because the EU has already invested in the project.

This is in part due to the international platform COVAX, an cooperative project of the global vaccination alliance Gavi, the research alliance CEPI (Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations) and the World Health Organization.

The German minister of health briefly thought out loud if maybe Germany should be allowed to call dips on the first supplies but was immediately told off by Merkel who insisted that the vaccine was a "global public good". The owner of Curevac, another German biotech company likely to also soon present a vaccine, has also gone public months ago saying the vaccine should be a public good and available to the whole world at or near production cost.


I'm not sure yet what the Moderna or Astra Zeneca price will be. But they will likely have to compete with the basically-at-cost price of the Europeans.


EDIT: I just read that back in August Moderna stated they'd charge about 35 $ per dosage, so roughly twice the price of the Pfizer/BioNTEch one but still reasonable.

Why only $2.5 in Brazil? That is weird...