Six men charged in alleged plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer

[ceecee]

All The Presidents Men | HuffPost


This is a good read and my position is this - if the right actually did or does disavow any of this, they should aim their anger at these people. They don't, they use whataboutism and bothsideism to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

In the end, ideologically, most on the right don't have a problem with private paramilitary groups or right wing terror aimed at journalists, sovereign citizen or extremist religious zealotry. It furthers the tyranny of the minority - which conservatives and Republicans certainly are. Unfortunately for them, they're going to reap the results aimed directly at them.

More than anything, voters are sick of chaos and Trump, does anyone think the next administration won't be gunning to rectify that?

 

[Jaguar]

You just don't understand right wing values.

Neither does the current right wing.

 

[ceecee]

Man arrested in plot to kidnap Gov. Whitmer previously featured in Swedish newspaper

“He even said at one point, ‘We are not crazy people, we are not planning to burn things or something like that, we are just here to protect our country,'” Svanberg said.

However, according to the FBI and Michigan State Police, they were planning much more than that. Investigators allege Bellar was appointed “sergeant” of the Wolverine Watchmen, an anti-government group conspiring to target law enforcement, attack the Capitol in Lansing and kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer.

The idea of property (not planning to burn things) being much more important than human life (kidnap Gov. Whitmer) is one of the very core disconnects of the right. But it's been so ingrained in conservatives and even moderates, it's sickening.

 

[Lark]

All The Presidents Men | HuffPost


This is a good read and my position is this - if the right actually did or does disavow any of this, they should aim their anger at these people. They don't, they use whataboutism and bothsideism to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

In the end, ideologically, most on the right don't have a problem with private paramilitary groups or right wing terror aimed at journalists, sovereign citizen or extremist religious zealotry. It furthers the tyranny of the minority - which conservatives and Republicans certainly are. Unfortunately for them, they're going to reap the results aimed directly at them.

More than anything, voters are sick of chaos and Trump, does anyone think the next administration won't be gunning to rectify that?

I've read good commentators writing about the fall of the Weimer Republic suggest that the success of the Nazis had more to do with a population ready to capitulate because of utter chaos than anything else, almost every single far right development or uprising in history has happened after an unsuccessful left wing one, if you consider the interwar years or even the period before WW1 this is definitely the case, especially in the countries that eventually made up the Axis powers.

A lot of this whataboutism and bothsideism, if the history here in NI is anything to go by (and I think it is), has a lot to do with stockholm syndrome and identifying with the aggressor, the sorts of things that happen in domestic violence households where people can not make up their minds to leave, ever.

I know a lot of right wing people who are as much terrified of the right wing ideology and groups as anyone else and behave the ways they do because they think it will grant them immunity and protect them, preserving their sense of safety for a bit.

Until there are reports that some right wing spree killer was gunning down lawabidding, church going, retired, white folk along with the usual targets its not likely to change, even then there'll be some excuse made or rationalization found that perhaps they "looked liberal" or something like that, just wait and see.

 

[Lark]

Man arrested in plot to kidnap Gov. Whitmer previously featured in Swedish newspaper





The idea of property (not planning to burn things) being much more important than human life (kidnap Gov. Whitmer) is one of the very core disconnects of the right. But it's been so ingrained in conservatives and even moderates, it's sickening.

It is a core tenet of conservatism though, property mattering more than people.

I think there's a US conservative sociologist, Nisbet, who writes about it on a book on conservatism. He uses the copper bosses shooting down of workers which is recalled in the IWW song Joe Hill as an example of just how seriously conservatives used to take property rights.

The idea is that property is something enduring, it almost qualifies as one of the "perennial things", so individuals, individual lives, they come and go but what matters is what goes on and on (or should). Its also why conservatives will consider the body count in large projects, like Isiah Berlin's works, as collateral damage or a price worth paying.

Its a really much more radical ideology than I think most people realize, at least I think so, its far removed from the well ordered pragmatism and cautious conscience people take it for.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Man arrested in plot to kidnap Gov. Whitmer previously featured in Swedish newspaper

The idea of property (not planning to burn things) being much more important than human life (kidnap Gov. Whitmer) is one of the very core disconnects of the right. But it's been so ingrained in conservatives and even moderates, it's sickening.

This hits the nail on the head. That difference in foundational valuing is the core problem.

 

[ceecee]

Whitmer kidnapping plot suspects also discussed abducting Virginia governor: FBI agent | Fox News

 

[Jaguar]

Whitmer kidnapping plot suspects also discussed abducting Virginia governor: FBI agent | Fox News

Ugly sonofabitches.

 

[ceecee]

Michigan Republican linked to organizer of rally where militia allegedly plotted to kidnap Whitmer

John James at a ultra-right wing- Give me my all you can eat buffet or give me death! rally? I'm shocked.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Michigan Republican linked to organizer of rally where militia allegedly plotted to kidnap Whitmer

I'm shocked.

It's ok because they're defending freedumb.

 

[ceecee]

Since I'm sure most here don't have a Detroit Free Press subscription.....

Michigan governor kidnap mastermind wanted to execute her on live TV and burn the state capitol: report – Raw Story

I hope conservatives understand that they'll be counted with these people to some degree, regardless of them holding extremist views or not. Perhaps conservatives may want to spend a little time being vocal about extremists in their ranks and less about imaginary threats from the left.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Something that's bothered me from the get-go about Trump's propaganda about the 'dangerous left' is that if the extreme left were truly more dangerous, he wouldn't endlessly antagonize them. He sees it as strength and has bragged about the "tough guys" on his side who would resort to violence if Trump didn't get his way. He knows full well the violent pitch-fork grabbing minions are on the right, and he thinks it brings him strength. He wouldn't feel emboldened to constantly bait and lie about the left without the (perceived) security of that advantage.

 

[ceecee]

Something that's bothered me from the get-go about Trump's propaganda about the 'dangerous left' is that if the extreme left were truly more dangerous, he wouldn't endlessly antagonize them. He sees it as strength and has bragged about the "tough guys" on his side who would resort to violence if Trump didn't get his way. He knows full well the violent pitch-fork grabbing minions are on the right, and he thinks it brings him strength. He wouldn't feel emboldened to constantly bait and lie about the left without the (perceived) security of that advantage.

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot: Disturbing new details revealed in court documents - ABC7 Chicago

Of course you will have the right wingers on this forum falling over each other to scream about "left violence" and never a peep about...

Plan B the militiamen had drawn up, that involved a takeover of the Michigan capitol building by 200 combatants who would stage a week-long series of televised executions of public officials.

And, according to government documents now on file in lower Michigan court, there was also a Plan C -- burning down the state house, leaving no survivors.

BUT ANTIFAAAAAAAA!!!!

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Something that's bothered me from the get-go about Trump's propaganda about the 'dangerous left' is that if the extreme left were truly more dangerous, he wouldn't endlessly antagonize them. He sees it as strength and has bragged about the "tough guys" on his side who would resort to violence if Trump didn't get his way. He knows full well the violent pitch-fork grabbing minions are on the right, and he thinks it brings him strength. He wouldn't feel emboldened to constantly bait and lie about the left without the (perceived) security of that advantage.

This dichotomy is a constant tactic. Biden is "sleepy Joe", but also terrifyingly dangerous with hyper violent followers. Joe Biden is soft on crime, but also responsible for incarcerating minorities, etc. There is something about the completely incongruent dichotomy that is a boon for propaganda. It might be because people filter what they want to hear, and so he provides options for selective perception? I don't actually know why it works.

Another element no one talks about is the inner city gang culture's role in the riots. Doesn't anyone wonder if that was part of it and not politically motivated in favor of Biden or Trump, but basic, local anarchists? Another thing I wonder is that these "Antifa" people are always dressed in black, but they aren't an actual organization? I'd like to find out who and what these people are. Is there some sort of group or are they for-hire militias playing a role?

I do believe the riots were somewhat staged along with the protests to make people on the Left appear violent. It is established that the white supremecist militias came into the city for violence.

 

[The Cat]

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot: Disturbing new details revealed in court documents - ABC7 Chicago

Of course you will have the right wingers on this forum falling over each other to scream about "left violence" and never a peep about...



BUT ANTIFAAAAAAAA!!!!

it further irritates because fuck heads like this make people afraid of gun owners.