The "Cuties" Thread

[Jaguar]

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award-winner | Sundance Institute

 

[Red Memories]

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award-winner | Sundance Institute

Number one, think it is sorta ridiculous that just because you disagree with something we now call it fake. That's like Trump calling all shit fake news. But anyway.

I do agree some people view this hypocritically. Certainly, we should already be outraged by the culture in which creates the situations depicted. Nevertheless, I have continued to state my problem is not with Netflix in and of itself, because Netflix is merely a service which provides movies and documentaries and tv series to watch across many genres and spectrums. They are merely a medium. I do not blame the actresses. I, as previously stated, blame the parents and the producer herself who was willing to put preteens IN this situation. I have stated before from my experiences with these negative situations, I think more needs to be done to protect kids, not just in the industry, but online period. Too many people waiting to hide behind a username and abuse innocent children emotionally, and possibly physically and sexually.

But cancelling netflix does nothing. But I can say I don't like real kids playing these roles, or even a young teenager, because they do not understand what they're really doing. the emotional aspects of it. It can take years for that to digest and truly create the emotional injuries it does. It does not demonstrate overnight. None of the situations, not even the ones with the 13 year olds and such, is right. I don't watch things like this and it sickens me the level of exploitation many young girls face in society. Do I think some of these people are likely doing some virtue signalling for some views for outrage? yes. That doesn't discredit the issue at hand - this movie exploited children. Don't dance around the real issue.

 

[Lexicon]

Since the discussion in this is ongoing between multiple people & idk who to quote, I’ll just make this a general post not directed at any one specific participant of the discussion:


I haven’t watched Cuties yet. I read some bits of the plot & thought, didn’t Little Miss Sunshine try to depict the creepy hypersexualization of children in a somewhat similar fashion? The pageant scene made me cringe a lot, but the stark contrast between the pageant kids & Olive really drives home how creepy that whole ‘industry’ is, & how early on girls are encouraged to act in a sexual manner.

As a survivor of sexual abuse [from age 9 to 11] (& only speaking for myself, not other survivors) —around the same ages the girls in Cuties are— the *portrayal* of the exploitation of kids doesn’t offend me, particularly when it’s making a point. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. It makes my skin fucking crawl. Will it upset people? I hope so. It should upset people. It should make them recoil & feel something.



There is a difference between portrayal & approval/support of something terrible like this, I think.



We ardently consume media where adults are violently raped on shows like Law & Order: SVU (one of the longest running series on TV, mind you), sometimes even sexual situations with minors are described in unpleasant detail— by child actors. We gorge ourselves on all manner of violence in the arts— domestic/foreign terrorists, gangs, & assholes all sorts batter, shoot, & blow themselves & bystanders to bits in movies. We relish in superhero vigilante justice. We’ve got Family Size Buckets of torture porn like Hostel & Saw you can feast your eyes upon for days at a time. We devour scene after scene of mindless violence for sheer entertainment— not always even remotely for any educational or social value, or for the betterment of society. Just for fun. Hell, I love horror novels & films. I’m not knocking it.


...But a potentially accurate depiction of sexualizing children is hard to swallow?
Think about that.



Again, I haven’t seen Cuties yet (I will try to tomorrow), & if there is toplessness of minors involved, yeah, that crosses into demonstrating vs portraying, & I’m not comfortable with that, since it does inherently expose minors in a way they aren’t old enough to consent to being exposed (however, some cultures don’t consider breasts sexual— wasn’t that what the Free The Nipple Movement was about, in part, at least?). But then again— don’t we have prepubescent topless female babies in diaper commercials? No one bats an eye. If you think pedophiles don’t pleasure themselves & fuel their sexual fantasies with those, you’re in serious denial.


Ultimately, I guess I’ll need to see this sort of thing in context first. But this is my general opinion when the masses are offended by such things ( another example: The Professional sparked some outrage when a young Natalie Portman played a guessing game with an adult— At one point, after doing several celeb impressions, she donned a giant set of panties & bra [over her clothes] to imitate Madonna. A lot of folks freaking lost it). Little girls do this stuff & don’t always see things the way adults do. I think it’s important to be aware of this, & not pretend it doesn’t exist.



I’m no authority on any of this by any means— just sharing my own perspective on the topic as a whole. If my wording sounds absolute, it’s just the shade of my own subjective emotional experience & not necessarily an assertion of fact or judgment on others who may not agree. Take it or leave it.

 

[Red Memories]

Since the discussion in this is ongoing between multiple people & idk who to quote, I’ll just make this a general post not directed at any one specific participant of the discussion:


I haven’t watched Cuties yet. I read some bits of the plot & thought, didn’t Little Miss Sunshine try to depict the creepy hypersexualization of children in a somewhat similar fashion? The pageant scene made me cringe a lot, but the stark contrast between the pageant kids & Olive really drives home how creepy that whole ‘industry’ is, & how early on girls are encouraged to act in a sexual manner.

As a survivor of sexual abuse [from age 9 to 11] (& only speaking for myself, not other survivors) —around the same ages the girls in Cuties are— the *portrayal* of the exploitation of kids doesn’t offend me, particularly when it’s making a point. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. It makes my skin fucking crawl. Will it upset people? I hope so. It should upset people. It should make them recoil & feel something.



There is a difference between portrayal & approval/support of something terrible like this, I think.



We ardently consume media where adults are violently raped on shows like Law & Order: SVU (one of the longest running series on TV, mind you), sometimes even sexual situations with minors are described in unpleasant detail— by child actors. We gorge ourselves on all manner of violence in the arts— domestic/foreign terrorists, gangs, & assholes all sorts batter, shoot, & blow themselves & bystanders to bits in movies. We relish in superhero vigilante justice. We’ve got Family Size Buckets of torture porn like Hostel & Saw you can feast your eyes upon for days at a time. We devour scene after scene of mindless violence for sheer entertainment— not always even remotely for any educational or social value, or for the betterment of society. Just for fun. Hell, I love horror novels & films. I’m not knocking it.


...But a potentially accurate depiction of sexualizing children is hard to swallow?
Think about that.



Again, I haven’t seen Cuties yet (I will try to tomorrow), & if there is toplessness of minors involved, yeah, that crosses into demonstrating vs portraying, & I’m not comfortable with that, since it does inherently expose minors in a way they aren’t old enough to consent to being exposed (however, some cultures don’t consider breasts sexual— wasn’t that what the Free The Nipple Movement was about, in part, at least?). But then again— don’t we have prepubescent topless female babies in diaper commercials? No one bats an eye. If you think pedophiles don’t pleasure themselves & fuel their sexual fantasies with those, you’re in serious denial.


Ultimately, I guess I’ll need to see this sort of thing in context first. But this is my general opinion when the masses are offended by such things ( another example: The Professional sparked some outrage when a young Natalie Portman played a guessing game with an adult— At one point, after doing several celeb impressions, she donned a giant set of panties & bra [over her clothes] to imitate Madonna. A lot of folks freaking lost it). Little girls do this stuff & don’t always see things the way adults do. I think it’s important to be aware of this stuff, & not pretend they don’t exist.



I’m no authority on any of this by any means— just sharing my own perspective on the topic as a whole. If my wording sounds absolute, it’s just the shade of my own subjective emotional experience & not necessarily an assertion of fact or judgment on others who may not agree. Take it or leave it.

There is a scene where she starts attempting to strip for her cousin, before rushing into a bathroom to take a nude vagina photo to post online. I am curious though from your perspective.

 

[Lexicon]

There is a scene where she starts attempting to strip for her cousin, before rushing into a bathroom to take a nude vagina photo to post online. I am curious though from your perspective.

That sounds vile, but the photo of her vulva is implied, correct? There is no moment on the screen where a child”s exposed vulva is shown, right? Kids do that stuff, unfortunately— it starts at all different ages with pressure in so many different directions. Adults should be more aware of it. We didn’t grow up with nearly this much pressure & exposure. Or access to cameras or strangers.

Like I said, I want to see this stuff in full context in the movie. If I don’t get to watch it tonight, I definitely will tomorrow.

 

[Maou]

The fact the movie is banned on 4chan for violation of community guidelines (Global rule Number 1) should say something.

 

[Jaguar]

Twerking (/ˈtwɜːrkɪŋ/) is a type of dance that came out of the bounce music scene of New Orleans in the late 1980s. Individually-performed, chiefly but not exclusively by women, dancers move by throwing or thrusting their hips back or shaking their buttocks, often in a low squatting stance.

Don't watch Cuties until you learn what Twerking is.

 

[Jaguar]

Who the hell didn't see this one coming:

Calls to remove the film have gained particular traction among supporters of the QAnon conspiracy theory, who believe top Democrats and celebrities like the artist Marina Abramovic are behind a global child trafficking ring. “Netflix just normalized pedophilia,” one QAnon-supporting Facebook page posted on Friday.


The same conspiracy theory lunatics who thought Hillary Clinton was involved in a children's sex ring at a pizza parlor in Washington D.C.


Some conservatives, among them Judicial Watch head Tom Fitton, tried to use the controversy to impugn the morals of former United Nations ambassador and current Netflix board member Susan Rice and Barack and Michelle Obama, who have a production deal with Netflix.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...uties-should-try-it-they-might-find-lot-like/


Thomas J. Fitton is the president of Judicial Watch, an American conservative activist group. Fitton is known for pro-Trump commentary.

 

[Lexicon]

The fact the movie is banned on 4chan for violation of community guidelines (Global rule Number 1) should say something.

It says to me they don’t wanna touch whatever sick memes that edgelords who frequent that cesspool might make out of the film stills with a ten foot pole, if nothing else.

 

[Lexicon]

I just finished watching the film. Slowly. It’s an hour past my bedtime, so I’ll elaborate more later after some sleep. But it didn’t offend me, personally. Is it difficult to watch? Of course.


The final dance routine was uncomfortably long, I will say that. I think the movie accurately depicted the process in which sexualizing kids becomes normal from so many overwhelming directions, & illustrates step by unsettling step how that process puts them at ever increased risk for the very harmful exploitation everyone railing against the film is rightfully afraid of. I saw no child nudity (the dancer/actress who exposed a breast for a fraction of a second in a music vid the girls watched/idolized was not a minor).


I don’t think kids copying these twerking dance moves for the film inherently victimizes them in this context, especially since there was a child psychologist on set with them throughout filming & even now— well afterward— to ensure they understand everything, as well as deal with the newfound attention they’ll receive from the movie in a healthy way (something many child performers don’t necessarily receive by default, but should, imo). If anyone disagrees, that’s totally ok, too (goes w/out saying: I’m not gonna drop the BanHammer on anyone’s toes for disagreeing). This is a tough, painful topic. And I’m not the moral authority on this— just sharing my own feelings about it & my interpretation, as others here have. No more or less valid than anyone else’s.



Like I said, I’ll elaborate more on this later. I think the film took a very difficult topic & tried do an honest portrayal of it. I need to sleep & reflect some more on it, but I think overall the message the film tried to convey was an important one.


And holy hell, am I glad I’m never having kids. Tech is fucking way, way too accessible.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Pedophilia and human trafficking are obviously things to be vociferously against, but why has sharing and talking about it on social media become so intertwined with ridiculous conspiracy theories backed by little to no evidence? I've seen people on Instagram reshare the Pizzagate conspiracy and re-promote the Wayfair theory. It destroys good work by activists and people actually trying to fight the issue. (If you're active on social media, you might be more familiar with what I'm talking about.)

 

[Maou]

It says to me they don’t wanna touch whatever sick memes that edgelords who frequent that cesspool might make out of the film stills with a ten foot pole, if nothing else.

It might surprise you, but there are two things 4chan doesn't tolerate. Pedophilia, and Animal cruelty. They are very aware of the "memes' people could make out of the movie, but even a 4channer would find them distasteful.

 

[Red Herring]

Honest question from a non-American (and a bit of a side-tangent but still relevant): Is toplessness of pre-pubescent children considered an issue in the USA? Would it be a problem for a girl to run around at the beach in bathing trunks only, as long as she hasn't developed breasts? I am asking because I think there might be cultural differences here and standards and sensibilities also might have changed since the days of my childhood.

 

[ceecee]

Honest question from a non-American (and a bit of a side-tangent but still relevant): Is toplessness of pre-pubescent children considered an issue in the USA? Would it be a problem for a girl to run around at the beach in bathing trunks only, as long as she hasn't developed breasts? I am asking because I think there might be cultural differences here and standards and sensibilities also might have changed since the days of my childhood.

I don't see it as an issue but I wouldn't let my little girl run around in public that way. CPS or the police getting called - it's really not worth it.

 

[Red Memories]

Honest question from a non-American (and a bit of a side-tangent but still relevant): Is toplessness of pre-pubescent children considered an issue in the USA? Would it be a problem for a girl to run around at the beach in bathing trunks only, as long as she hasn't developed breasts? I am asking because I think there might be cultural differences here and standards and sensibilities also might have changed since the days of my childhood.

Someone would likely call CPS here if they saw it. You'd need to be behind a privacy fence and even then someone could be nosy.

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] I do appreciate your feedback into the movie as well. I also appreciate you stating everyone has a right to their opinion on it... I am glad to hear the situations in the movie aren't as intense.

 

[ceecee]

I've posted this but it's good and explains why pedophilia is part of right wing conspiracies. My theory is also that they (the conservative right) often happily excuse a mountain of rape, homicide, neglect and illegal activity so they go entirely overboard on the deaths or abuse they deem worthy. Cops, not civilians. Nursing home residents, not children. Billionaires, not working people...

Why Are Right-Wing Conspiracies so Obsessed With Pedophilia? – Mother Jones

lol @ 4chan having "standards".

 

[Red Memories]

Who the hell didn't see this one coming:

Calls to remove the film have gained particular traction among supporters of the QAnon conspiracy theory, who believe top Democrats and celebrities like the artist Marina Abramovic are behind a global child trafficking ring. “Netflix just normalized pedophilia,” one QAnon-supporting Facebook page posted on Friday.


The same conspiracy theory lunatics who thought Hillary Clinton was involved in a children's sex ring at a pizza parlor in Washington D.C.


Some conservatives, among them Judicial Watch head Tom Fitton, tried to use the controversy to impugn the morals of former United Nations ambassador and current Netflix board member Susan Rice and Barack and Michelle Obama, who have a production deal with Netflix.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...uties-should-try-it-they-might-find-lot-like/


Thomas J. Fitton is the president of Judicial Watch, an American conservative activist group. Fitton is known for pro-Trump commentary.

I think it is sad concerns of child exploitation are considered a left or right thing in general. This should be a completely nonpartisan issue.

 

[Red Memories]

I've posted this but it's good and explains why pedophilia is part of right wing conspiracies. My theory is also that they (the conservative right) often happily excuse a mountain of rape, homicide, neglect and illegal activity so they go entirely overboard on the deaths or abuse they deem worthy. Cops, not civilians. Nursing home residents, not children. Billionaires, not working people...

Why Are Right-Wing Conspiracies so Obsessed With Pedophilia? – Mother Jones

lol @ 4chan having "standards".

Oh don't make my blood boil about nursing home abuse. Now that is something I could really get on a soapbox about - the forgotten elderly.

 

[ceecee]

Oh don't make my blood boil about nursing home abuse. Now that is something I could really get on a soapbox about - the forgotten elderly.

I'm saying the conservative right isn't concerned about deaths at all. They want people to believe they are and they show concern about the deaths they deem worthy of concern. Elderly, but not children for example. But it's all a lie as they are very cool with a six figure death toll. They only want to play on emotions and it's successful.