Is America great now?

[Maou]

So what do any of you think will be the consequence for America's greatness of all the deaths through naivette and stupidity during this pandemic?

At least they died free.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So what do any of you think will be the consequence for America's greatness of all the deaths through naivette and stupidity during this pandemic?

That depends how far the pandemic will go. If it remains on this level there will be some hurt pride, plenty of new debts and some dead people. However if the numbers and problems starts to snowball while people start to freak out all bets are off.

 

[Lark]

At least they died free.

Consequence do you think that will have?

 

[Lark]

That depends how far the pandemic will go. If it remains on this level there will be some hurt pride, plenty of new debts and some dead people. However if the numbers and problems starts to snowball while people start to freak out all bets are off.

I certainly do wonder what effect it will have on a country which makes headlines for spree killers, gun violence and now extra judicial killings by the authorities.

 

[Virtual ghost]

US visitors set to remain banned from entering EU | World news | The Guardian


Very sure Finland isn't going to deviate since they won't let Sweden in either. We'll give it another try at the end of the year. Maybe our kids will get to see their grandparents someday before they die.

Probably. EU countries invested plenty of resources and energy to phase out the pandemic and therefore no one is in a real hurry to open the gates too much. Especially with the countries that are known "red zones". We simply have to think of our own economy and that is where our focus is. Just for the picture: EU that has 30% more people than whole US lately has less new daily cases than Florida on average day. Therefore people are "sensitive" in traveling related issues. We are generally closed towards most of the world for now, it isn't personal.

 

[ceecee]

Probably. EU countries invested plenty of resources and energy to phase out the pandemic and therefore no one is in a real hurry to open the gates too much. Especially with the countries that are known "red zones". We simply have to think of our own economy and that is where our focus is. Just for the picture: EU that has 30% more people than whole US lately has less new daily cases than Florida on average day. Therefore people are "sensitive" in traveling related issues. We are generally closed towards most of the world for now, it isn't personal.

Oh I'm not saying the rest of the world shouldn't ban the US travelers: they absolutely should. But my husband would like to see his parents again, I think. Regardless of the pandemic, my in-laws won't risk coming back here at any point. I don't even think a different administration would matter after all this.

I don't think most Americans have a clue what kind of damage has been done by Trump and the GOP that enable him, especially in Europe.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

At least they died free.

Just like those people we helped in the Middle East.

Part of me thinks we deserve Trump. Trump is actually a pretty good symbol for America; he's who we actually are as a country. I don't find his political success shocking or incomprehensible; it actually makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I certainly do wonder what effect it will have on a country which makes headlines for spree killers, gun violence and now extra judicial killings by the authorities.

Maybe it isn't nice to say it openly when people are obviously "listening" but the whole story about global leadership and endless greatness is basically dead at this point. No one really sees US in that light anymore. Therefore they will have to settle with the stamp "one of major countries on Earth", because the world is evidently becoming multi-polar "game of thrones" style environment. While this pandemic basically made sure that the first place is even formally lost. Because social and economic consequences will be felt for years even in best case scenario, since the system was in crisis even before the pandemic. However if the pandemic problem doesn't snowball there will probably be some major social shifts. Healthcare is kinda obvious case. After all with global travel all of this can happen again in a few years from now. Because now they finally got where most of other nation were before at some point: you can't expected that the market will always be there. In some situations normal trade simply isn't possible and therefore you need to have a system that can take damage at home.



In short: US will need to rationalize their positions if they want to avoid the world of hurt in increasingly unstable world. However in which general direction they will go I am not 100% sure. Since they should have already made certain turns in my book.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Maybe it isn't nice to say it openly when people are obviously "listening" but the whole story about global leadership and endless greatness is basically dead at this point. No one really sees US in that light anymore.

no way man. no way

you need to stop listening to democrat propaganda, man. why are u so into the democrat propaganda in croatia? u cant vote for the democrat party.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh I'm not saying the rest of the world shouldn't ban the US travelers: they absolutely should. But my husband would like to see his parents again, I think. Regardless of the pandemic, my in-laws won't risk coming back here at any point. I don't even think a different administration would matter after all this.

I don't think most Americans have a clue what kind of damage has been done by Trump and the GOP that enable him, especially in Europe.

Well, if it a personal emergency and he has a very recent negative test results he should be able to pass the border. There will surely be some random planes across the Atlantic. The only concrete problem that I see is that airports are very risky places in the terms of pandemic.

 

[Virtual ghost]

no way man. no way

you need to stop listening to democrat propaganda.

That is hard since it seems that basically all MSM on the continent are generally critical of Trump. Left, right, center doesn't make too much of a difference. While in many cases they even seem to define the problems more clearly then the American media. What is because here people have figured out how to do things about Americans are still dreaming. Like medicare for all. By European standards even good chunk of Democratic stuff is crazy but current GOP is simply over the line however you look at it.

 

[Maou]

Consequence do you think that will have?

I was being sarcastic. Americans have too much pride, and our culture is part of the reason it got out of hand. Hence the "At least they died free" remark, to represent their mindset. I don't get what is so hard about wearing a mask, but I also don't agree with unconstitutional enforcement of making them mandatory/punishable by law for not doing so. If they just wore the mask to begin with, no one would have tried to infringe on your rights. Simple.

Hence why I said previously that social cohesion was the most effective measure against covid. Japan and S. Korea clearly demonstrated that. USA is pretty individualist. I am not surprised this is happening at all, and neither should you be. USA isn't like a lot of other countries, and vice versa. Each country will have its unique struggles, so it's probably fair to say you can't compare them/hold different countries to the same standard.

There is also far too much finger pointing going on.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Has anywhere in the world ever been great?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I was being sarcastic. Americans have too much pride, and our culture is part of the reason it got out of hand. Hence the "At least they died free" remark, to represent their mindset. I don't get what is so hard about wearing a mask, but I also don't agree with unconstitutional enforcement of making them mandatory/punishable by law for not doing so. If they just wore the mask to begin with, no one would have tried to infringe on your rights. Simple.

Oh, I have to apologize to you. I was taken by surprise by your remark, and wasn't quite sure how to interpret it. I decided you were being serious. My apologies.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I will dare to post this one here.


EU court ruling strikes hammer blow to transatlantic data flows

 

[The Cat]

Has anywhere in the world ever been great?

Dacia. Dacia was great. But then Rome obliterated it. Even then we couldn't have nice things.

 

[anticlimatic]

The left no longer even has a clue as to what makes America great

The video is like a caricature of how conservatives think the left sees America — except it isn’t a caricature; it’s real. It’s a straw man come to life.

The fact is, all the freedom and progress those other countries enjoy today wouldn’t be possible without the United States. As evidence we’re just OK, the video cites statistics showing that other developed countries, such as Luxembourg, Sweden and Norway, have lower poverty rates or better education and health care outcomes than we do. As for our “kick-ass democracy,” the Times says, it’s not that big a deal because “a lot of countries have freedoms.”

Put aside for a moment all the misleading data the video uses to show America isn’t so great. The reason that “a lot of countries have freedoms” today is because our Founding Fathers pioneered the principle of popular sovereignty, where governments answer to the people. At the time of our founding, the rest of the world was ruled by monarchs. Our founders established the first country in human history that was built not only on blood and soil, but on an idea — the idea of human liberty.

Today, 4.1 billion people live in democracies. (Of those who don’t, four out of five live in China.) The unprecedented expansion of liberty has produced unprecedented prosperity.

Last September, the Brookings Institution reported that “for the first time since agriculture-based civilization began 10,000 years ago, the majority of humankind . . . some 3.8 billion people, live in households with enough discretionary expenditure to be considered ‘middle class’ or ‘rich.’ ”

United States isn’t simply the greatest nation on Earth; we are indispensable. Without us, the world would be mired in the darkness of totalitarianism rather than the light of liberty.

Abolish the US! Bring back totalitarianism!

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Has anywhere in the world ever been great?

Probably not.

The left no longer even has a clue as to what makes America great



Abolish the US! Bring back totalitarianism!

More religious nonsense.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The left no longer even has a clue as to what makes America great

Abolish the US! Bring back totalitarianism!

I know you wouldn't agree but I will say it anyway.


First: many democracies around the world are anti-trump exactly because he reminds them of the bad people that ruled them.



Second: Yes, the US founding fathers were a big step in human history. But that was quite long ago (over 200 years) and therefore the world has moved on, especially after the cold war. Many things that the founding fathers stood for are today totally normal in most of the world and people simply want more. This is exactly why US lost good chunk of it's reputation and went into a permanent crisis, since it stopped developing and others surpassed it in things that used to be American strengths. Some got so good in this that to them US has plenty of elements of the totalitarianism that you mentioned, since in the end that scale is kinda relative depending on position from which you are watching.


However if history teaches us anything it is that no country is irreplaceable as well as the fact that as soon as you turn to the "God given" logic you lose connection with reality. Especially since countries can pick up things from where other stopped and continue their work to bring the next step. Or to be concrete to me your healthcare system appears so totalitarian and barbaric that this can be literally compared with genocides and suffering from history books. This is also probably number one reason why I don't have any real desire for US citizenship. However it is American right that has much more desire to keep this show going on. In other words the time of founding fathers which if I understand correctly didn't give the right of vote to women or minorities simply passed. Many of their over 200 years old ideas are now simply too old and too totalitarian by modern standards and they will probably get even more so over the time. However equating US with founding fathers is for me very simplistic approach to things that will eventually brake. The time completely overpowered the Egyptian pharaohs that were very advanced for their time and that works for all static "political circles". Since the game is going and that can't be prevented, especially since that isn't fundamentally in human nature.

 

[anticlimatic]

I know you wouldn't agree but I will say it anyway. First: many democracies around the world are anti-trump exactly because he reminds them of the bad people that ruled them. Second: Yes, the US founding fathers were a big step in human history. But that was quite long ago (over 200 years) and therefore the world has moved on, especially after the cold war. Many things that the founding fathers stood for are today totally normal in most of the world and people simply want more. This is exactly why US lost good chunk of it's reputation and went into a permanent crisis, since it stopped developing and others surpassed it in things that used to be American strengths. Some got so good in this that to them US has plenty of elements of the totalitarianism that you mentioned, since in the end that scale is kinda relative depending on position from which you are watching. However if history teaches us anything it is that no country is irreplaceable as well as the fact that as soon as you turn to the "God given" logic you lose connection with reality. Especially since countries can pick up things from where other stopped and continue their work to bring the next step. Or to be concrete to me your healthcare system appears so totalitarian and barbaric that this can be literally compared with genocides and suffering from history books. This is also probably number one reason why I don't have any real desire for US citizenship. However it is American right that has much more desire to keep this show going on. In other words the time of founding fathers which if I understand correctly didn't give the right of vote to women or minorities simply passed. Many of their over 200 years old ideas are now simply too old and too totalitarian by modern standards and they will probably get even more so over the time. However equating US with founding fathers is for me very simplistic approach to things that will eventually brake. The time completely overpowered the Egyptian pharaohs that were very advanced for their time and that works for all static "political circles". Since the game is going and that can't be prevented, especially since that isn't fundamentally in human nature.

You're right that Trump does not remind me personally of an authoritarian dictator, but I can't tell anyone who does that they are wrong to feel that way, because everyone has a right to their own opinion and perspective. The fact is, that he is an elected official whose term will expire either this year or in a few more, and then there will be another. No American- conservative or otherwise- would tolerate anything less.

There is a very dangerous movement in this country, however, to rebrand American history completely, and consider western values themselves- inherit human rights to life liberty property and the pursuit of happiness- as toxic and "evil" (or at the very least "not great") despite those rights being the cornerstone of almost all human progress since the Roman Empire began its decline.

If the balance of powers is thrown off kilter enough to transform this nation into something new (exactly what the left in the US is now trying to do, which is a first for our country- something quite new. Prior to this both political sides of the US worked within and respected the system) what kind of consequences do you think that would have?

We supported your independence in 92. What do you think would happen globally if the US military for the most part disappeared- it's funds redirected to give Americans healthcare and other entitlements?