Is America great now?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What do you think?

 

[Stanton Moore]

When was America great? It was predicated on the ownership of slaves. It's only ever been about capitalism and exploitation of labor and genocide.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

When was America great? It was predicated on the ownership of slaves. It's only ever been about capitalism and exploitation of labor and genocide.

Well, I used to have some ideas about it being a haven for immigrants. I thought one area where we were more progressive than Europe was with regards to immigration (which was because, I assumed, we'd already had mass waves of immigration). Thank god the GOP changed my mind about all that in its quest for "greatness."

I will add that as I learn more about the history of immigration policy, my prior view seems rather naive.

These days, I feel a stronger connection to my city and state than the country as a whole.

 

[rav3n]

• In April, the U.S. unemployment rate was 14.7%, an unprecedented figure since the Great Depression.
• Last known gini index was 48.5 (2018 published in 2019), the highest level of inequality for 50 years. It's likely higher now.
• At present, American Springs is happening (riots, burning and looting all over the country) while 104,357 lives have been lost due to the incompetence of the Trump Administration, never mind 1,789,368 confirmed infected with C19 and that only 1/4 have recovered but the U.S. continues reopening at an alarming pace.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

• In April, the U.S. unemployment rate was 14.7%, an unprecedented figure since the Great Depression.
• Last known gini index was 48.5 (2018 published in 2019), the highest level of inequality for 50 years. It's likely higher now.
• At present, American Springs is happening (riots, burning and looting all over the country) while 104,357 lives have been lost due to the incompetence of the Trump Administration, never mind 1,789,368 confirmed infected with C19 and that only 1/4 have recovered but the U.S. continues reopening at an alarming pace.

The Lamestream Media is doing everything within their power to foment hatred and anarchy. As long as everybody understands what they are doing, that they are FAKE NEWS and truly bad people with a sick agenda, we can easily work through them to GREATNESS!

yes more greatness, more death, unemployment, and riots, lol.

 

[The Cat]

yes more greatness, more death, unemployment, and riots, lol.

Make Fires Great Again?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm in a "discussion" with my MAGA uncle about Trump right now. During this, I asked him how America has become great in the last three years when it wasn't before. His only real response was that Trump was President of it and not Obama. So, he likes Trump because he makes America great, and America is great because Trump is president. OK. Also he added as an afterthought something about him appointing judges, which no President has ever done before, I guess.

He naturally invoked the "logic" of his positions earlier when I used the "facts don't care about your feelings" line. I'll give Ben Shapiro this, it's a lot of fun to say. I got to use it at least once more.

The Trump cult is way worse than Obama's fanbase ever was. At least with him, they would point to some specific policy that they thought was good; they could find specific positive impacts (even if I thought those were not enough). Here they just invoke a bunch of things Americans invented before Trump was president, or use circular reasoning.

 

[rav3n]

U.S. hits highest single day of coronavirus cases at 36,358, breaking April record

As 25 states show more COVID-19 cases, Trump administration ending federal funding for testing sites - CNN Video

Just sayin'.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

U.S. hits highest single day of coronavirus cases at 36,358, breaking April record

As 25 states show more COVID-19 cases, Trump administration ending federal funding for testing sites - CNN Video

Just sayin'.

Deep down, I think they know Trump sucks, but they just have too much cognitive dissonance to admit that to themselves.

 

[rav3n]

Deep down, I think they know Trump sucks, but they just have too much cognitive dissonance to admit that to themselves.

Wish they would so this hell has the potential to end for everyone, including themselves.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Wish they would so this hell has the potential to end for everyone, including themselves.

I don't think most of them will, though. At least not within the next year.

 

[Maou]

Depends on how you define great. I think it is unfair to blame Trump for Covid, riots, and unemployment currently going on.

Trump didn't do better or worse on Covid than any other nation in terms of action. I think no one took it seriously enough at first as well, and downplayed it. Trump included. It's no one's fault that it caught them off guard, because China lied about the infection rate, death rate, and communicability types. As what seperated nations on how well they did with Covid given the time frame, was a combination of factors such as culture, health system, and enviroment that contributed the most towards the outcome. Many hold Trump to impossible standards out of hatred. He clearly made noticable positive efforts to amend the problem, but people only judged him by mistakes and speed under a microscope, with people even not understanding/ignoring how slow things can be in government with red tape everywhere. This isn't a movie. This is not a dictatorship or monarchy either. There is a lot of cross checking before actions are usually taken. This is due to pressure from various sources, and something as simple as closing the boarders on a whim can have enourmous impact on things like the economy. They had to be SURE it was a threat. Hearing about it somewhere else, isn't being SURE. Trump has been held to the Superman dilemma for far too long, and people have unrealistic expectations on what things can be done immediately, or not. Thats if there is even existing protocal to begin with. If you do not know what the Superman dilemma is, it means no matter how strong or powerful a being is, they can only be in one place at a time. Therefor some bad things will still occur, and people will blame them for it. Trump is held to this standard, but is only human. No one even forgives his humaness, and I cannot stand that type of injustice. They demonize him, belittle, insult, and treat him unfairly, and cry foul when he does it back.Yet people tell me he is the bad guy, and they are the good guys for doing so. No, thats not how it works. Good people, wouldn't be petty and shallow and resort to such tactics. Good people would ignore Trump, and speak through action and character. You say Trump is a bad guy? I say everyone else is worse. The bar is set so low now, that its laughable. Trump is the lesser "evil" in my eyes.

Then, the unemployment thing is entirely artificial and was intentional to stop the spread of Covid. Everyone also overlooks the fact that some democrats wanted to keep lockdowns going to crash the economy to make Trump look bad. While screaming Trump didn't do enough. The same people would have screamed fascism if he did try to force lockdowns instead of letting states handle it. I think Trump's lack of force was a good thing. You can't have both sides of the argument. They even screamed fascism, racist, and xenophobic at Trump when he tried to close the boarders early on.

As for what one could consider "Great", doesn't equal perfect. Trump's idea of greatness, has to do with improvement, and to be able to have pride in being Americans. Life would be a lot more happy for everyone if we defined it through positives, rather than negatives. Maybe instead of reporting on the dead, we report on recoveries and survival rate. We report on communities coming together and helping each other, than the ones divided and killing each other. Focusing only on extreams just perpetuates extreams. It's not ignoring issues, its telling people its possible to have hope that things can get better. Trump is there to offer hope, that things can get better.

You know, I wouldn't even defend Trump at all if he wasn't so unfairly attacked. I wouldn't even be a supporter, if it wasn't for that. Its something that bothers me on a level beyond politics. This polarization, this unnatural hatred and manipulation of the masses. This phychological warfare committed on social media and the trash that poses as journalism. It's all so damn tireing. Its amazing you guys can even talk about this shit daily without being depressed.

 

[Tellenbach]

America is the most powerful and influential nation that has ever existed on the planet, but sure...if you take slices of time, you can make the argument that there are periods when America wasn't so great: The 30s during the Great Depression with Democrat FDR, the Carter years, the Obama years, and the Covid-19 months.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

America is the most powerful and influential nation that has ever existed on the planet, but sure...if you take slices of time, you can make the argument that there are periods when America wasn't so great: The 30s during the Great Depression with Democrat FDR, the Carter years, the Obama years, and the Covid-19 months.

Yeah, Romans thought the same once too, though.

 

[Tellenbach]

Yeah, Romans thought the same once too, though.

I doubt that many people dispute that the Romans were great at one time - bunch of assholes, but still great. It may be true that the USA peaked in the 90s, but we're still the top dog.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

As for what one could consider "Great", doesn't equal perfect. Trump's idea of greatness, has to do with improvement, and to be able to have pride in being Americans. Life would be a lot more happy for everyone if we defined it through positives, rather than negatives.
.

That's the thing, though. He doesn't make me feel proud. As a matter of fact, he killed the last bit of national pride I had.

As for positives, I asked a few people what he's actually done to make this country great, and they either invoked things that happened before Trump was elected, or said that "it's enough that he's President and not the organizer in chief." Even his supporters can't give me real positives. Hell, justices he appointed didn't vote the way the people who voted for him wanted to.

 

[ceecee]

That's the thing, though. He doesn't make me feel proud. As a matter of fact, he killed the last bit of national pride I had.

As for positives, I asked a few people what he's actually done to make this country great, and they either invoked things that happened before Trump was elected, or said that "it's enough that he's President and not the organizer in chief." Even his supporters can't give me real positives. Hell, justices he appointed didn't vote the way the people who voted for him wanted to.

Well, he replaced patriotism with nationalism and his fans follow suit, too ignorant to see the difference.

I will give him credit for ripping any remaining vestige of civility, decency and polite imperialism away for everyone to see for themselves what this nation actually is. It's very clear the majority of people don't want Trump or more Trumpism and that means abandoning the GOP as he owns it and everyone in it. It also means most Dems are just a more courteous version of the GOP and they're pointless and hopeless as a party. We need to lead ourselves and that's not only possible, it's happening now.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Well, he replaced patriotism with nationalism and his fans follow suit, too ignorant to see the difference.

I will give him credit for ripping any remaining vestige of civility, decency and polite imperialism away for everyone to see for themselves what this nation actually is. It's very clear the majority of people don't want Trump or more Trumpism and that means abandoning the GOP as he owns it and everyone in it. It also means most Dems are just a more courteous version of the GOP and they're pointless and hopeless as a party. We need to lead ourselves and that's not only possible, it's happening now.

He did kind of bring everything into the open, didn't he?

My "discussion" with my uncle was started because I posted about how good it was that AOC won the primary again. He started trolling me (as is often the case), so I decided to troll him back. I told him that that one thing that has happened under Trump's reign is astronomical rise of the DSA, and that there are going to be more AOCs going forward. "Enjoy " I told him. I think that really cheesed him off, because he kept responding to statements later in the discussion by saying "enjoy". He didn't really have anything to say that wasn't Fox News/ talk radio talking points that I haven't heard a zillion times before. Like about how all the "worst places" are Democrat-run and I should move to Venezuela, etc, etc. It was very amusing. It's basically like you're always "discussing" with the same person; despite thinking of themselves as supporters of "individualism," they all talk exactly the same.

 

[Maou]

That's the thing, though. He doesn't make me feel proud. As a matter of fact, he killed the last bit of national pride I had.

As for positives, I asked a few people what he's actually done to make this country great, and they either invoked things that happened before Trump was elected, or said that "it's enough that he's President and not the organizer in chief." Even his supporters can't give me real positives. Hell, justices he appointed didn't vote the way the people who voted for him wanted to.

More like everyone credits everyone but Trump, for what he has done. It is unreasonable, and illogical to say all positive things in the Trump's presidency was because of Obama, because the same things could have been said about Obama benifitting from a Bush economy etc. They claimed Obama ended the recession 1 year after being in office. Wouldn't it have taken years to come into effect based on the standard they hold Trump to? Obama's stimulus package was non-existant compared to Trump's...yet people say Trump's has no effect? If there is one thing Trump can claim positively, it's jobs and the economy. And just because you disagree with certain policies, that doesn't mean other people don't see those policies as positive. It's really subjective at the end of the day.

 

[highlander]

What do you think?

No. The guy is the dumbest, most ignorant, self centered and incompetent leader this country will ever know.