Random political thought thread.

[The Cat]

 

[Maou]

Most fast food places here are offering 14$/h+, so its not like the labor shortages are caused by them only offering federal minimum wage. The lowest wage ive seen in 3 years has been 10$/h.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

The average hourly pay for a Fast Food Worker is $9.08. And there is no labor shortage, the economy was broken prior to COVID, this is simply exposing all of that. This industry either killed or disabled (long COVID) a huge amount of their employees - these franchise/business owners can go fuck themselves.

How do you explain that the unemployment an employee paid into, same as Medicare and SS, is being taken from them by Republican governors and state legislatures? To "fight" an imaginary labor shortage?

 

[Totenkindly]

Most fast food places here are offering 14$/h+, so its not like the labor shortages are caused by them only offering federal minimum wage. The lowest wage ive seen in 3 years has been 10$/h.

The average fast food wage in Baltimore is $9 / hour.

 

[The Cat]

The average fast food wage in Baltimore is $9 / hour.

The average hourly pay for a Fast Food Worker is $9.08. And there is no labor shortage, the economy was broken prior to COVID, this is simply exposing all of that. This industry either killed or disabled (long COVID) a huge amount of their employees - these franchise/business owners can go fuck themselves.

How do you explain that the unemployment an employee paid into, same as Medicare and SS, is being taken from them by Republican governors and state legislatures? To "fight" an imaginary labor shortage?

And they rarely pay that much most, ime around my neck of the woods, dont even get that.

These capitalists have forgotten their own line: "you gotta spend money to make money" as it stands it just slavery with extra steps and a different press release. These last two years have violently and obviously ripped the bloody mask off the monster of the system and people who cant/wont choose to see that...

 

[Maou]

The average fast food wage in Baltimore is $9 / hour.

And unemployment pays around 200$/week not including the covid bonus bit. So that is like 5$ an hour (plus whatever your state does). The covid part of unemployment will be up in September, so people will go back to those jobs eventually because it does pay more than unemployment normally. Don't get me wrong, fast food is a shitty place to work and the wages are shit. But it isn't suppose to be a career or something you get as a job to support yourself. It is suppose to be something teens can get for work experience. You shouldn't even want to get a job there as an adult, and it isn't the only option when you are young. I personally hope fast food goes out of business, because its nothing but cancer causing garbage.

Another issue people have, is complete ignorance on the type of jobs they can do with zero experience, mostly because they do not advertise them like gas stations and fast food do. You actually have to look and ask, even with no hiring signs, and apply either in person, or via job fairs/online job fairs/hiring sites. There are a LOT of jobs that need people that most people don't even know exist. Such as security, lot technicians, maintenance, warehouses, trucking (they even pay for you CDL and allow you to take pets on the road, and honestly that's the only 6 figure job you can get with ease). Some places even pay you to be a trade apprentice with just high school education required that can make triple of what a fast food employee makes in a year, and it only improves over time along with benefits and retirement.

 

[Stigmata]

And unemployment pays around 200$/week not including the covid bonus bit. So that is like 5$ an hour (plus whatever your state does). The covid part of unemployment will be up in September, so people will go back to those jobs eventually because it does pay more than unemployment normally. Don't get me wrong, fast food is a shitty place to work and the wages are shit. But it isn't suppose to be a career or something you get as a job to support yourself. It is suppose to be something teens can get for work experience. You shouldn't even want to get a job there as an adult, and it isn't the only option when you are young. I personally hope fast food goes out of business, because its nothing but cancer causing garbage.

First off, who determines what sectors of industry should be expected to compensate livable wages, and why despite being lucrative for restauranteurs should they be exempt from paying anything that resembles a livable age? Why should we as taxpayers subisidize (because this is what happens when those workers cannot afford to live based on their wage and apply for government benefits to have their needs met) their operating costs so that they can in turn rake in more profit?

I get that unskilled labor isn't going to command a six figure salary, but right now you have people who need to work 2 full time jobs just to maintain living in poverty. When you're trapped in that cycle, what are your realistic means by which to uplift yourself? What happens to the kids of parents trapped in that cycle of poverty?

Do McDonald’s Workers in Denmark Make $22 an Hour?

How can McDonald's in Denmark manage to have a base pay of $20 an hour + provide six weeks of paid vacation? They can do the same here, they just aren't required to do so and therefore they don't.

 

[ceecee]

First off, who determines what sectors of industry should be expected to compensate livable wages, and why despite being lucrative for restauranteurs should they be exempt from paying anything that resembles a livable age? Why should we as taxpayers subisidize (because this is what happens when those workers cannot afford to live based on their wage and apply for government benefits to have their needs met) their operating costs so that they can in turn rake in more profit?

I get that unskilled labor isn't going to command a six figure salary, but right now you have people who need to work 2 full time jobs just to maintain living in poverty. When you're trapped in that cycle, what are your realistic means by which to uplift yourself? What happens to the kids of parents trapped in that cycle of poverty?

Do McDonald’s Workers in Denmark Make $22 an Hour?

How can McDonald's in Denmark manage to have a base pay of $20 an hour + provide six weeks of paid vacation? They can do the same here, they just aren't required to do so and therefore they don't.

The casual exploitation of teenage workers is also something I have a problem with and it's been an acceptable part of the capitalist system for years and years. Some of those kids are helping to support their families, especially now.

Pandemic forces some teen students to work to support their families: "I find it hard to live sometimes" - CBS News

And I want to seriously cut the next motherfucker that simps for Republican UI cuts or tries justifying their right wing talking points, especially if they're working class white people. Piss off. More help, not less I don't give a fuck what the reason is.

 

[Stigmata]

And I want to seriously cut the next motherfucker that simps for Republican UI cuts or tries justifying their right wing talking points, especially if they're working class white people. Piss off. More help, not less I don't give a fuck what the reason is.

Well right-wing framing always tries to put a racial undercurrent on this topic when they talk about it. Perhaps the crime you correlate with the inner cities isn't an issue of race but an issue of class and lack of opportunities of economic advancement for people within those areas?

But no, that would require acknowledging that poor minorities and poor white people are actually in the same boat, putting the onus failed political policies and corporate greed. Poor people who feel they have no realsitic means to improve their station in life are going to be more inclined to commit crimes, no matter the racial background. They also love to demonize the children of those that grow up in those types of environments. Ever think maybe the kids would've made better decisions had their parents not have had to work 3 jobs a piece to survive, leaving them little to no time to invest in their own children?

 

[Maou]

First off, who determines what sectors of industry should be expected to compensate livable wages, and why despite being lucrative for restauranteurs should they be exempt from paying anything that resembles a livable age?

There is no such thing as a "Livable wage". I don't know who came up with that, but it tries to say that all work should pay enough to live off of. But not all labor is equal, nor as difficult. How is it different than a minimum wage? A EMT gets paid 15$/h and had to go to school for 2 years to get that amount. Why should a teenager working at McDonalds just to push a button, get paid the same amount as an EMT? Also the restaurants have limited money, to increase the pay, they either have to raise the prices of the food, or fire most of the staff. What people don't understand about franchises, is that its run by single investors that rent out the "Brand". They don't have all the money that the brand corporations have. They have to pay the corporation to use the name. Essentially, most fast food places are actually owned by real estate giants. Who rent the restaurant brand to "tenants" who try to make it work. Similar to mom and pop shops, but they don't have to work on the reputation.

Why should we as taxpayers subisidize (because this is what happens when those workers cannot afford to live based on their wage and apply for government benefits to have their needs met) their operating costs so that they can in turn rake in more profit?

They shouldn't, for anything really. But when the government imposes regulations that knowingly harm businesses, they should foot the bill.

I get that unskilled labor isn't going to command a six figure salary, but right now you have people who need to work 2 full time jobs just to maintain living in poverty. When you're trapped in that cycle, what are your realistic means by which to uplift yourself? What happens to the kids of parents trapped in that cycle of poverty?

This isn't an issue with the amount being made, its the issue with the value of the money. What causes inflation? What causes the value of the dollar to drop? Those are what people should be trying to change, not what is being made. Changing the minimum wage is just a temporary solution, a bandaid, to the actual disease that plagues the financial system of this country. And the government is in on it, along with corporations. You should think of corporations as nobility, to the government. They have sway over the king, because they control the resources. Monopolies, and money in politics, and those who run it, actively try to affect their stock prices and destroying or building up things that profit them, and they do not care about the collateral damage to the peasants. That is the real problem.

How can McDonald's in Denmark manage to have a base pay of $20 an hour + provide six weeks of paid vacation? They can do the same here, they just aren't required to do so and therefore they don't.

Different country, different laws, different culture, and very different rules. Remember what I said about franchises above? That also probably applies here. Someone rented the brand from McDonald's, and chose to pay that to their employees. Also cannot forget the difference in value of currency. Also, taxes might work differently, and they might have more inflation, so their cost of living might be much higher. The wage doesn't matter, the buying power/value does.

 

[Coriolis]

First off, who determines what sectors of industry should be expected to compensate livable wages, and why despite being lucrative for restauranteurs should they be exempt from paying anything that resembles a livable age? Why should we as taxpayers subisidize (because this is what happens when those workers cannot afford to live based on their wage and apply for government benefits to have their needs met) their operating costs so that they can in turn rake in more profit?

I get that unskilled labor isn't going to command a six figure salary, but right now you have people who need to work 2 full time jobs just to maintain living in poverty. When you're trapped in that cycle, what are your realistic means by which to uplift yourself? What happens to the kids of parents trapped in that cycle of poverty?

Do McDonald’s Workers in Denmark Make $22 an Hour?

How can McDonald's in Denmark manage to have a base pay of $20 an hour + provide six weeks of paid vacation? They can do the same here, they just aren't required to do so and therefore they don't.

Have you ever eaten at a restaurant in Denmark? I have travelled multiple times in both Denmark and Norway, and can tell you that restaurants in Scandinavia overall are much more expensive than in the US, in large part because staff are paid better. As a result, people eat out far less often. I suppose it still ends up better, because those who are employed in restaurants can actually live on their wages, and those not hired because of lower demand are forced to look elsewhere, perhaps to the sort of jobs [MENTION=37565]тень[/MENTION] mentioned.

 

[Stigmata]

Have you ever eaten at a restaurant in Denmark? I have travelled multiple times in both Denmark and Norway, and can tell you that restaurants in Scandinavia overall are much more expensive than in the US, in large part because staff are paid better. As a result, people eat out far less often. I suppose it still ends up better, because those who are employed in restaurants can actually live on their wages, and those not hired because of lower demand are forced to look elsewhere, perhaps to the sort of jobs [MENTION=37565]тень[/MENTION] mentioned.

Yeah when I was in Australia their restaurant prices were quite expensive as well. My point with citing that article was that the concept is not entirely inconceivable, not that we should completely mirror their compensation levels.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Regarding the restaurant prices:


If you come from outside of this system it can look expensive at face value. However if you are in the system you can also be expensive and still competitive. Plus in my own culture you don't really have to give tips, since the taxes are basically a tip. Which will go to the waiters/cooks healthcare, education of theirs or yours children, power grid .... or whatever. What generally smooths things out for everyone.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Regarding the restaurant prices:


If you come from outside of this system it can look expensive at face value. However if you are in the system you can also be expensive and still competitive. Plus in my own culture you don't really have to give tips, since the taxes are basically a tip. Which will go to the waiters/cooks healthcare, education of theirs or yours children, power grid .... or whatever. What generally smooths things out for everyone.

It's my understanding that tips for restaurants are a uniquely American phenomenon.

Coincidentally, I tip food delivery services 30%.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's my understanding that tips for restaurants are a uniquely American phenomenon.

Coincidentally, I tip food delivery services 30%.

They aren't unique and even here people often tip if they are going into some nicer place. But what seems to be specific in US are the amounts/percentages in tips (that are large).
On the other hand we believe that your employer should give you reasonable wage, while the tip is in taxes and you get them indirectly through programs like universal healthcare, education, benefits ... etc. The point is that if this is in taxes you basically make sure that everyone gets their tip. What can especially matter in the situations where you lose your job or have dysfunctional family that isn't good with money. While if the person is really bad at their job the employer should just fire the person. So idea is to smooth and standardize the whole paying system in order to avoid having people that are simply "stuck". Because those will turn into a problem sooner or later.

 

[Coriolis]

There is no such thing as a "Livable wage". I don't know who came up with that, but it tries to say that all work should pay enough to live off of. But not all labor is equal, nor as difficult. How is it different than a minimum wage? A EMT gets paid 15$/h and had to go to school for 2 years to get that amount. Why should a teenager working at McDonalds just to push a button, get paid the same amount as an EMT? Also the restaurants have limited money, to increase the pay, they either have to raise the prices of the food, or fire most of the staff. What people don't understand about franchises, is that its run by single investors that rent out the "Brand". They don't have all the money that the brand corporations have. They have to pay the corporation to use the name. Essentially, most fast food places are actually owned by real estate giants. Who rent the restaurant brand to "tenants" who try to make it work. Similar to mom and pop shops, but they don't have to work on the reputation.

They shouldn't, for anything really. But when the government imposes regulations that knowingly harm businesses, they should foot the bill.

We all pay, one way or another. Either we pay enough for products and services that those providing them can live off the wages of a full time job. Or, we subsidize workers paid less through social programs and charity. Or we leave them in need, working multiple jobs, and having more of the troubles already referenced: crime, undersupervised children, less money for the workers to spend in the economy themselves, etc. The most efficient and humane option is to pay any full-time worker a liveable wage. If the work they are doing isn't considered worth it, they should be doing something else. I recall reading years ago that when Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel, the janitor in her building made more than she did. Apparently this was because salary (or perhaps taxes withheld from salary) were tied to family size, and he was raising several children at home, while she was not. I have no objection to this. Going by "what the market can bear" underrewards jobs that make significant contributions while overpaying others. This is because consumers - whether on the individual or corporate level - are often shortsighted in their purchasing decisions, and do not always connect cause and effect in a way that the "market forces" theory requires to provide for the common good. Yes, no one said it had to provide for the common good, but there are significant costs when it does not, too.

 

[Lark]

It's my understanding that tips for restaurants are a uniquely American phenomenon.

Coincidentally, I tip food delivery services 30%.

Yeah, its uniquely American.

People tip here but its small change, often literally, by comparison. I recall hearing about what to tip in the US and discovering that if you tip like we would here that people would be shocked, thinking you were either deliberately trying to offend them or where condescending something.

 

[Maou]

We all pay, one way or another. Either we pay enough for products and services that those providing them can live off the wages of a full time job. Or, we subsidize workers paid less through social programs and charity. Or we leave them in need, working multiple jobs, and having more of the troubles already referenced: crime, undersupervised children, less money for the workers to spend in the economy themselves, etc. The most efficient and humane option is to pay any full-time worker a liveable wage. If the work they are doing isn't considered worth it, they should be doing something else. I recall reading years ago that when Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel, the janitor in her building made more than she did. Apparently this was because salary (or perhaps taxes withheld from salary) were tied to family size, and he was raising several children at home, while she was not. I have no objection to this. Going by "what the market can bear" underrewards jobs that make significant contributions while overpaying others. This is because consumers - whether on the individual or corporate level - are often shortsighted in their purchasing decisions, and do not always connect cause and effect in a way that the "market forces" theory requires to provide for the common good. Yes, no one said it had to provide for the common good, but there are significant costs when it does not, too.

Taxes never go to what they are intended. You pay the same, either way, but only one allows for you to actually have flexibility in case something goes awry. Also, no system will make everyone happy, no matter how perfect it is. That is a fact of life. A system should be geared to help as many as possible, while maintaining the ability of upward mobility for all. Straining the working class to prop up the impoverish just makes everyone poor. Also, not everyone in poverty is a single mom who is trying their best. Many people who are in poverty got there via bad decisions because their decisions had consequences. Or they have zero discipline/grew up around bad people. No one has the obligation to help people who messed things up for themselves. You can argue it's due to the lack of education, but that doesn't help, because education is also a corrupt mess where they barely manage to teach anything and pocket most of the money. You have to recognize at some point, that the government is the problem to begin with. Don't ask the person who broke it to fix it. This mindset of trying to help every last person, that everything got messed up to begin with. The reason it has gotten so corrupt, is that people demanded solutions, and the government steps in and says they "fixed" it, but didn't actually fix anything. The politicians pocket all the tax money and paid off their donors who got them elected, and passed laws that favored those donors (subsidies etc), and made it look like they were helping on the outside by passing shitty law that essentially just paid the bureaucrats without actually doing a damn thing for the actual population. They will also hype up those shitty laws saying "Look we did something, reelect us please!" Slowly, but surely the government is monopolizing control over every aspect of our lives, and people vote for that and think it is a good thing. And they also lead you to believe so via propaganda. One day the mask will drop, and by then it will be to late to change course.

This was never a matter of people not wanting to help those in need, it is a matter of corruption in the system being the reason why those struggling people struggle in the first place (who actually try anyways). The shitty people who make money off the guise of help, and how corruption is rampant in literally ever aspect of our lives from food, to healthcare, to gas, to law enforcement, to local and federal offices. It should all be burned down, because its rotten to the core.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes there is such a thing as a livable wage, which defines some sum of money that is needed to have a minimum of survival and preservation of health. Also the jobs that evidently aren't able to provide the livable wage shouldn't be started in the first place. That is the whole point of making livable wage and minimum wage to be in sync. To cut out abuse and the waste of time.



You can't make everyone 100% happy but you can 80% by providing normal life. What is still major improvement in some places.