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Trump vs. Bernie

Doctor Cringelord

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But we are not those countries, we are America. We have our own way of doing things. Copying everyone else, is anti-antithetical to American culture. Those who dislike our system, are oikophobes.

Then you should read some history books. Our government was inspired by and closely modeled after Ancient Greece, Republican era Rome, Britain's parliamentary system, and North American indigenous nations.

Much of our culture arose as a result of our founders copying what they believed to be the best aspects of previous cultures.

There's nothing wrong with looking at what works and doesn't work for other nations and cultures.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Ill probably get on Medicare after I retire and let them do what they can for me. If my next of kin want to kick in extra for anything they're welcome to, otherwise I'm content to go whenever my number is up. Until then I write off my health insurance through my buisness, and since I can purchase an entire house around my neck of the woods for what a couple years rent costs in most major cities, that frees up plenty of income to save for retirement.

This article may be of interest to you. At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.


Trump says he'll cut entitlements like Social Security and Medicare if reelected to shrink trillions in national debt
 

anticlimatic

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This article may be of interest to you. At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. Trump says he'll cut entitlements like Social Security and Medicare if reelected to shrink trillions in national debt
Typical Trump firing off nonsense from the hip. You really can't trust anything he says. I still like most of what he does though. I doubt Medicare is going anywhere, but I have a bad feeling social security will be gone by the time I get to cash into it. Which is why I plan on doing as much saving and smart investing on my own before that.
[MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] still giving investment lessons?
 

Virtual ghost

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I'd love to see pictures of your countryside if you don't mind (just because I love rural photography). But I don't need socialized medicine. I've always received extremely good care without it. I wouldn't mind it I suppose if my taxes didn't go up more than I pay annually in insurance and if the quality and efficiency stayed the same (not likely on either front) but for the most part healthcare is as much of a non issue for me as social justice. My issue is usually with unnecessary government interference, regulation, and taxation.




Here it is: life in rural continental Croatia. My family is from various villages and towns around the countryside. :)




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Ok, I admit I have said some pretty bad things about Trump since here we have bad experience with that kinds of leaders (similar goes for Obama-like charismatics). However as you can generally see socialized medicine didn't disrupt traditional way of life. In a way it even helped it since it made it more easy and a more stable bet. Because even if some kind a parasite, hailstorm, flood or whatever damages your product you are safe in the terms of medical bills. Therefore all I am really asking is open mind. And now I will shut up. :)
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Typical Trump firing off nonsense from the hip. You really can't trust anything he says. I still like most of what he does though. I doubt Medicare is going anywhere, but I have a bad feeling social security will be gone by the time I get to cash into it. Which is why I plan on doing as much saving and smart investing on my own before that.
[MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] still giving investment lessons?

I think it's a good idea to save for retirement, regardless, to be sure.
 

Jaguar

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Typical Trump firing off nonsense from the hip. You really can't trust anything he says. I still like most of what he does though. I doubt Medicare is going anywhere, but I have a bad feeling social security will be gone by the time I get to cash into it. Which is why I plan on doing as much saving and smart investing on my own before that.
[MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] still giving investment lessons?

Has DT gone completely insane regarding SS and Medicare? And if you can't trust anything he says, why the hell did you vote for him? The market is unhinged right now with wild swings, not a place for rookies.
 

anticlimatic

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Has DT gone completely insane regarding SS and Medicare? And if you can't trust anything he says, why the hell did you vote for him? The market is unhinged right now with wild swings, not a place for rookies.

I was thinking about finding someone to do my investing for me. Is that a bad idea?
 

Jaguar

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I was thinking about finding someone to do my investing for me. Is that a bad idea?

The money managers I've met require a relatively large minimum amount to invest. I also think the only person they give a shit about is themselves.
 

Virtual ghost

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Beautiful! I feel right at home. My turn (even though you didn't ask :D)



This generally looks more like our mountains.






While what I presume are great lakes has similarities with some parts of our Adriatic sea.







As I said my people have large diaspora in your corner of the world exactly since terrain and climate are often similar (as well as structure of economy).



This perhaps has to be moved into outdoors thread.
 

Virtual ghost

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I think terms like fascist, autocratic, and authoritarian apply - because he's consistently directly demonstrated the will to operate above the law and he wants (in fact, already believes he's completely entitled to) the absolute power to do so - but "communism" has the indelible characteristic of all business being state owned and 45's autocracy is thoroughly capitalistic.


To finally answer.


If we define Communism in the cartoonish way of how it looked like in the 50s then this stands. However Communism has evolved, even to the point that Americans have trouble seeing it as Communism. Since they are suck with old school definitions. Take a look at the obvious case: China. They are building Communism and autocracy that doesn't run away from consumerism. However the core of the country is still evidently Communistic. Even big companies that are private ownership at the face value belong to the high members of the Communist party. Almost exact same picture there is in Russia. Everything of worth belongs to the friends of the president as the nation is consuming goods (what makes it "half-public"), while tanks and nukes with red star are rolling over the red square on regular basis.



However what Trump shares with those two countries: has very strong pushes against opposition, he believes in "internal enemy", has a similar inner circle as in those two countries, by remaking many trade agreements and pushing himself into decision making and narrative he is pushing government over private decisions. The fact that some love him for that is different pair of shoes, actually poor working people cheering for the supreme leader that is "disciplining oligarchy" is textbook Marxist iconography. From what I have seen on TV his in law were in Communist party back in a day (since his wife is born in the same Communist country as me), a trillion in a budget deficit is absolutely no problem for him, he likes military spending to the point he asked why he can't nuke some countries or regions, he wants his own military parades and his own iron curtain at the border, he was bragging about exchanging "love litters" with North Korea ... etc. To me it almost looks as he is trying to fight China by turning US into China (civil rights, environment, quality of life ...etc). Since that way he can fight fire with fire.




Watching all of this from Eastern Europe is almost comical, especially if we consider the whole Bernie the socialist story. While the the real socialist rules the country and people search salvation in his rule (what even isn't necessarily a bad thing). My country was openly Communist for decades but we were still going into shops to buy things and we were going on family vacations. Communism isn't in trade or money, it is in the mindset and control. The things that are much easier to overlook.


My 2 cents
 

Z Buck McFate

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To finally answer.


If we define Communism in the cartoonish way of how it looked like in the 50s then this stands. However Communism has evolved, even to the point that Americans have trouble seeing it as Communism. Since they are suck with old school definitions. Take a look at the obvious case: China. They are building Communism and autocracy that doesn't run away from consumerism. However the core of the country is still evidently Communistic. Even big companies that are private ownership at the face value belong to the high members of the Communist party. Almost exact same picture there is in Russia. Everything of worth belongs to the friends of the president as the nation is consuming goods (what makes it "half-public"), while tanks and nukes with red star are rolling over the red square on regular basis.



However what Trump shares with those two countries: has very strong pushes against opposition, he believes in "internal enemy", has a similar inner circle as in those two countries, by remaking many trade agreements and pushing himself into decision making and narrative he is pushing government over private decisions. The fact that some love him for that is different pair of shoes, actually poor working people cheering for the supreme leader that is "disciplining oligarchy" is textbook Marxist iconography. From what I have seen on TV his in law were in Communist party back in a day (since his wife is born in the same Communist country as me), a trillion in a budget deficit is absolutely no problem for him, he likes military spending to the point he asked why he can't nuke some countries or regions, he wants his own military parades and his own iron curtain at the border, he was bragging about exchanging "love litters" with North Korea ... etc. To me it almost looks as he is trying to fight China by turning US into China (civil rights, environment, quality of life ...etc). Since that way he can fight fire with fire.




Watching all of this from Eastern Europe is almost comical, especially if we consider the whole Bernie the socialist story. While the the real socialist rules the country and people search salvation in his rule (what even isn't necessarily a bad thing). My country was openly Communist for decades but we were still going into shops to buy things and we were going on family vacations. Communism isn't in trade or money, it is in the mindset and control. The things that are much easier to overlook.


My 2 cents

Thanks for this response. This makes sense. Admittedly I'm not well versed in the characteristics of how full blown communism played out, only the theory it's based on. I should read up on it though, because it's interesting to me that private ownership would still happen. And not just private ownership, but oligarchy, from the sounds of it - which is odd because it's so antithetical to the bones of communism. But anyway, now what you said makes sense.
 

Virtual ghost

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Thanks for this response. This makes sense. Admittedly I'm not well versed in the characteristics of how full blown communism played out, only the theory it's based on. I should read up on it though, because it's interesting to me that private ownership would still happen. And not just private ownership, but oligarchy, from the sounds of it - which is odd because it's so antithetical to the bones of communism. But anyway, now what you said makes sense.



As you probably know theory and practice aren't always the same thing, especially since genuine leadership requires certain pragmatism. Therefore there is no such thing as Communism, there are only Communisms. Since every country did their own version of the vision, which wobbles through time. In other words it is important to keep definitions up to date. Capitalism from 1950 and Capitalism from 2020 aren't really the same thing, therefore there is no reason that the same can't be applied to Communism. Things change and receive upgrades all the time, that is simply how life on Earth works. This is exactly why the western world is falling apart, the Communist world fully introduced the consumerism and Capitalists thought that the East accepted all of the their standards. Since the Capitalist thought they are trading just with other Capitalists. Especially since in their mind they had so cartoonish picture of Communism that for them it was impossible to trade with Communism by definition. While the real difference between Communism and Capitalism is in ownership of production, therefore there is no concrete reason why you can't build consumerist society with state/oligarchic run economy. For American culture it is very hard to separate Capitalism and consumerism but those two can indeed be separated.



Foreigners that come to my country never really realize that a number of times they haven't walked into something that has private owner. Since it was built to look like a private company even if the government or foreign governments decide who will be the top managers of the company.







What also means that the government will take the profit, which can then be used for "redistribution of wealth" or better infrastructure without the need of rising taxes.
This is exactly why I find it almost funny how some people here are afraid of the government. Since even my water heater in the kitchen is made by government run company, not to mention that I got out of university with 0$ in debt thanks to the government. This is exactly why I am constantly saying here "protect your people". Since your companies are generally disadvantaged next to well run state companies. Because those have almost endless funding, at their own territory the laws protect them. Also since companies are interconnected through the government they can provide more complex mix of services than private companies that stand on their own, the government can easily effect other countries in the favor of extra profit. Also as companies are connected through the government they can through influx of state money lower the prices in certain industry and wipe out the competition from the map and then with the large profit the government can do it in some other industry.

Everyone is attacking Trump that he is isolationist or what not but no one is really considering is the "traditional" scale of American influence realistic at this point. Can your corporations hold their ground in this new reality ? Especially since your own public is fundamentally against bailouts, while global trade for a long time isn't genuine Capitalism anymore. Therefore the only way to save the model is to enforce your own borders and have "party at home". Plus to make it even worse for western culture, none of this is fundamentally contrary to the democracy. Voters can elect the government and then the government chooses and sets the managers of the companies, what creates certain fairness in power play. America is getting ideologically crushed globally but it simply doesn't want to admit to itself this. While the times have changed since they are always changing.




Therefore don't be a slave to definitions. I know that western people like definitions but definitions are excellent tool for creating blind spots in understanding what is really going on. Since strict definitions are creating radars under which it is possible to fly unchecked if you don't fit the profile.
 

Merced

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*leaves flowers on this thread's grave*
 

Doctor Cringelord

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In some parallel universe we got President Sanders and VP Nina Turner. *starts hoping for ability to change history like that The Butterfly Effect movie*
 

Abcdenfp

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To finally answer. If we define Communism in the cartoonish way of how it looked like in the 50s then this stands. However Communism has evolved, even to the point that Americans have trouble seeing it as Communism. Since they are suck with old school definitions. Take a look at the obvious case: China. They are building Communism and autocracy that doesn't run away from consumerism. However the core of the country is still evidently Communistic. Even big companies that are private ownership at the face value belong to the high members of the Communist party. Almost exact same picture there is in Russia. Everything of worth belongs to the friends of the president as the nation is consuming goods (what makes it "half-public"), while tanks and nukes with red star are rolling over the red square on regular basis. However what Trump shares with those two countries: has very strong pushes against opposition, he believes in "internal enemy", has a similar inner circle as in those two countries, by remaking many trade agreements and pushing himself into decision making and narrative he is pushing government over private decisions. The fact that some love him for that is different pair of shoes, actually poor working people cheering for the supreme leader that is "disciplining oligarchy" is textbook Marxist iconography. From what I have seen on TV his in law were in Communist party back in a day (since his wife is born in the same Communist country as me), a trillion in a budget deficit is absolutely no problem for him, he likes military spending to the point he asked why he can't nuke some countries or regions, he wants his own military parades and his own iron curtain at the border, he was bragging about exchanging "love litters" with North Korea ... etc. To me it almost looks as he is trying to fight China by turning US into China (civil rights, environment, quality of life ...etc). Since that way he can fight fire with fire. Watching all of this from Eastern Europe is almost comical, especially if we consider the whole Bernie the socialist story. While the the real socialist rules the country and people search salvation in his rule (what even isn't necessarily a bad thing). My country was openly Communist for decades but we were still going into shops to buy things and we were going on family vacations. Communism isn't in trade or money, it is in the mindset and control. The things that are much easier to overlook. My 2 cents
Thank you for this "2 cents" very well put and paints a clear picture of "modern day" communism
 
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