• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Coronavirus

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I can't judge the drawing but both I and my partner have been tested and what I can confirm from personal experience is:

Yes, they use a very long Q-Tip
Yes, they insert it through the nose and shove it waaaaay down the cavity.
Yes, it hurts a bit. It's a slight burning sensation.
Yes, you feel mildly violated afterwards.

It only takes a few seconds though and while it definitely IS highly disagreeable I wouldn't call it painful.

And it's better than dying, yes?

I partly joke. But am partly serious. Like... The image of the test is bothersome? How about the idea of not being able to breathe?
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
"It's like being on eBay with 50 other states, bidding on a ventilator. I mean, how inefficient. And then, FEMA gets involved! And FEMA starts bidding! And now FEMA is bidding on top of the 50 [states]. So FEMA is driving up the price. What sense does this make?"

Give him shit, Andrew. ;)
 

Red Herring

Superwoman
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
7,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
And it's better than dying, yes?

I partly joke. But am partly serious. Like... The image of the test is bothersome? How about the idea of not being able to breathe?

As I said, it isn't pleasant but it's not a big deal either. It only takes a few seconds and they only need one nostil, so breathing really isn't an issue.
 

Mad Hatter

Head Pigeon
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,087
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
-1w
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
And it's better than dying, yes?

I partly joke. But am partly serious. Like... The image of the test is bothersome? How about the idea of not being able to breathe?

Infinitely better. I'm glad I only saw the picture after they had me tested, but that explains why I still had that slightly burning sensation two hours after the test.
This shouldn't keep anyone from doing it. I'm very glad I was offered to have myself tested.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
If anyone is looking for some way to help (and is in a position where they could do so), here is a list of clinical trials one could participate in related to COVID-19. Vaccine trials are currently beginning. It takes a special person to be able and willing to participate in a clinical trial (I am not sure if I would be one of them- it's situational), but in the offchance that some folks here might be, I think this is a good thing to share.

Search of: COVID-19 - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

Article on participating in a coronavirus vaccine trial. These early folks are heros, willing to put their lives at risk. Why I am volunteering to get the coronavirus vaccine - MIT Technology Review
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,048
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm glad I only saw the picture after they had me tested...

Yeah, I wish I could go back and unsee it.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it. I'm just saying, as someone who already lives with chronic sinus pain, I wish they could test by ripping off a fingernail (or anything similarly less painful looking) instead.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Italy and Spain are slowing down but UK and Turkey are coming into the problem zone. While US and France have clearly the biggest new number of cases.
For some reason France in a day jumped from 4500 new cases to 7500 new cases, I hope this is just someone starting the mass testing.
 

Tellenbach

in dreamland
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
6,088
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Gov. Whitmer reverses course on coronavirus drugs, is now asking feds for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer drew fire from some on the right after the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) sent a letter last week threatening "administrative action" against doctors who prescribed two experimental drugs that could potentially help coronavirus patients.

Why is a politician making medical decisions and overruling doctors? Over 200 people have died in Michigan; how many did Governor Whitmer let die because she has Trump Derangement Syndrome? That's really what this is about, no? Some people in the media and politicians don't like this drug combo because Trump mentioned it.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I listened to Trump's presser on the coronavirus today because I wanted 1 question asked and no one asked it.

How many of the 3800+ deaths were patients who were given the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin combo? You'd think people, especially "journalists" would be more curious.

Stop peddling this treatment and acting like you understand this: you don't. Your implication that this is some wonder drug combo is misinformed at best. If you were actually able to assess scientific literature and information you would come to see and understand that we still know very little about if this treatment would work, AND on the face of it it doesn't make sense.

Tellenbach, I am going to be as blunt as I can without violating the rules: You are NOT a scientist, you are NOT an expert, do NOT understand what you are talking about, and you need to STOP posting bullshit medical and scientific narratives. You ARE putting the health and safety of the general public at tangible risk by continuing to post poorly understood or outright false health narratives. I'm so beyond tired of this bullshit. You don't listen to ANYONE but yourself and it is a grave grave problem. The entire time I have been on this forum I have yet to see you have ANY reasonable grasp on medicine, chemistry, or science in general and completely lack any training or ability to assess the quality, meaning, or usefulness of any of this. You also don't even engage in meaningful science discussion, or any sort of meaningful discussion.

I want you (actually I encourage everyone) to take the time to read this article, it will answer all the questions you are seeking: More on Chloroquine/Azithromycin. And On Dr. Raoult. | In the Pipeline This has been published by the AAAS (The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the largest and most globally respected and recognized scientific society in the world, of which I have been a member of for years). The writer, Derick Lowe is a highly respected scientist who has academic and industry experience directly applicable to the topic at hand; he's worked in drug discovery. An organic chemist PhD (the same degree I have), he has the right education background and many years of experience to truly and deeply asses the science and medicine behind pharmaceuticals. His article makes the following very clear:

  • 1. The study so far on the chloroquine/azithromycin combo treatment is in the earliest state: a preprint. It hasn't even undergone peer-review.
  • 2. The study itself is quite weak and offers very little - if any - insight or scientific value.
  • 3. The researcher in question - Dr. Raoult - is not to be trusted and any of his work requires the utmost scrutinty, or possibly being disregarded all-together.
  • 4. Best case scenario: this research is really sloppy and needs to be re-done by other labs under far better controls.
Using my own expertise (as I am one on this topic), on the face of it the drug combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin makes little scientific and medical stance, particular on approach. There is some light evidence anti-malarials might work in coronaviruses (not this specific one), but that's not a sensible place to start. Starting with anti-viral research does. There is far more meaningful research being poured into this than this "popular" (because of the media) study. Additionally, hydroxychloroquine can have some terrible (in rare cases permanent) side effects that are both physical AND psychiatric. There is actually a far far better antimalarial medication available, artemisinin, and researcher on it won the nobel prize in physiology and medicine in 2015.

Sure, a lay person can to varying degrees have some assessment of science and the literature and come to some reasonable conclusion. I think its great when people try, and for the most part most folks can tell when they don't understand something and should defer to a proper expert. It makes me happy when I see people try to learn science. However, your entire tenure on the forum had demonstrated you are not only unable to do this, but unwilling to learn how to do so and how to know when to defer to experts and WHAT experts to defer to.

For the sake of all of us and the world, shut up, sit down, start listening to proper experts, and start actually learning. Your pushing of falsehoods have driven me up the goddamn wall for almost the entire time I have been here because of the harm scientific disinformation causes, and now, NOW at a time where there is a global pandemic and people are dying you continue to do so?! This is truly unconscionable and needs to come to and end. I am flabbergasted that I had to waste my time writing all of this, which should be so basic for anyone to understand: listen to proper experts, particular in the time of a crisis.

This disinformation barrage from people needs to be put to a stop by those who have the means to do so. The damage it has been and is causing is immense.


Gov. Whitmer reverses course on coronavirus drugs, is now asking feds for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine

Why is a politician making medical decisions and overruling doctors? Over 200 people have died in Michigan; how many did Governor Whitmer let die because she has Trump Derangement Syndrome? That's really what this is about, no? Some people in the media and politicians don't like this drug combo because Trump mentioned it.

See the above for why that might be. Good politicans also have a good panel of experts on their team to refer to.
 

Jonny

null
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
3,134
MBTI Type
FREE
XEZKW6X.png
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
There is stark similarity between the covid-19 map : COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

and the map of lights from space here:
712129main_8247975848_88635d38a1_o.jpg


This may be part of the reason for the red/blue divide on this issue. The density of people increases the rate of infectious diseases.

I don't want to minimize what is happening, but it's quite possible we will learn and become better equipped after learning the lessons from this pandemic.
How the Coronavirus Could Change City Planning - CityLab
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,567
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Gov. Whitmer reverses course on coronavirus drugs, is now asking feds for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine



Why is a politician making medical decisions and overruling doctors? Over 200 people have died in Michigan; how many did Governor Whitmer let die because she has Trump Derangement Syndrome? That's really what this is about, no? Some people in the media and politicians don't like this drug combo because Trump mentioned it.

Forsythia doesn’t work dude
 

Red Herring

Superwoman
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
7,488
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
At times this seems correlated with healthcare systems. People from Wales sometimes end up going to England for health care they can't get at home, for instance. On the other hand, considering Italy's healthcare system is ranked #2 in the world following after France, that's definitely an inconsistency as well.

Combine poor healthcare systems with populated areas...and you've probably got...well, the USA, as I currently see it based on what I've gathered thus far at least. Although we're ranked at 37th in the world based on factors such as care process (preventative care measures, safe care, coordinated care, and engagement and patient preferences), access (affordability and timeliness), administrative efficiency, equity, and healthcare outcomes (population health, mortality amenable to healthcare, and disease-specific health outcomes), I think our major shortcoming out of all of those is in the accessibility. Accessibility here is inadequate. I obviously don't have numbers for that, but I'd bet money that we get most of our score from the other things that were factored in. That's just based on experience with the healthcare system here.

With that in mind, consider that we have a situation in which the care process is harmed by supply shortages and a lack of preventative treatment or a cure, accessibility/timeliness (our stronger part of accessibility) is impacted by overwhelmed healthcare systems, healthcare outcomes are complete shit because the entire population is in a crisis and there is no cure. Now on top of that, accessibility, our weak point, is essential for tests and what little medical treatment we can provide. We are not faring well whatsoever, as our weakest link is the one that we are relying on the most in this situation.

To elaborate on the accessibility issues we're seeing...the US is charging out the ass for even tests, which are vital for preventing further spread of the virus. On top of that, we are in a shortage of them. These setbacks in preventing the spread of coronavirus cause healthcare systems to be more overwhelmed, this looping back around and further damaging our accessibility because people can't get in to be seen, treated, tested, nothing, and then even more tests are needed as well. Things need to be nipped at the bud as they were done in South Korea, but it just isn't being done in the USA.

Many Americans haven't taken things seriously either, which hasn't helped. I don't think many Americans are used to these kinds of things actually happening to them, so they didn't make a big deal of it at first. Our response time and how lightly we took things was certainly less than something to be proud of. The US healthcare system has been broken for a long time and this situation serves to illuminate that fact even more if you ask me. I think that an issue which has existed for a very long time a part of the root cause of things being so bad here currently.

A lot of this is why I worry so much about Brazil right now...healthcare is ranked 111th in the world and Bolsonaro is literally leading the denial movement and fighting against the quarantine. At least they have better accessibility than the US though...but how much is that going to help when healthcare systems are overwhelmed?

I think we need to differenciate between the general quality of a healthcare system and preparedness for emergencies like this. Spain and Italy have very good general healthcare systems, Spain's is considered one of the best primary care systems in the world. But that doesn't mean they have a lot of ICU beds and ventilators. It just means you'll a have an easily accessible doctor around the corner for normal health-related needs. (Well, that and obviously people are insured)
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but...

In the US the pattern is that it's the more populated city areas, but throughout other parts of the world, there are places where it's just the opposite.

Populated areas will have higher counts, as there are just more people and everyone is spaced closer together and coming into contact more often than they are in rural areas. This is true in the US, but there are areas of the world that have dealt with things in ways that caused that pattern to be inconsistent as well. Furthermore, there are places such as Iran and Wales that have a higher mortality to confirmed case ratio than the populated developed areas. At times this seems correlated with healthcare systems. People from Wales sometimes end up going to England for health care they can't get at home, for instance. On the other hand, considering Italy's healthcare system is ranked #2 in the world following after France, that's definitely an inconsistency as well.


People need to understand one thing: the ranking of healthcare systems in this situation doesn't mean much.
If the system gets overwhelmed all of the numbers are our of the window. Also the system can be really good in handling certain types of diseases and completely fail in handling of this crisis. It is also possible that everything is ok but due to disruption in global supply chain the system runs out of supplies. It is possible to have a decent system that crashes since too many healthcare workers got sick. Another factor is that not all countries have the same average age of the population, what seem to be the factor that plays a part. Etc.



The whole idea of mass staying at home is exactly because healthcare systems can't really be trusted to handle this 100% right. Therefore it is better that the whole thing is cut off even before there is a real dilemma.
 
Top