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The Impeachment Thread

Obfuscate

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Probably a fake but ....



Monica Lewinsky and the refusal of shame | Prospect Magazine

seems plausible that it is real...
 

Nicodemus

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What bribery? This is a prime example of seeing what you want to see, instead of using your eyes. Trump bribed no one, and there was no quid pro quo. They have changed the "accusation" five times now. This is a circus purely to try to sabotage the next election. Nothing more.
Have you watched any of the House hearings?

Trump coerced Ukraine into pretending to investigate Biden in exchange for a White House meeting and military aid. That is a quid pro quo, whether Ukraine follows through or not (the plan was only abandoned and the aid released when it became public). Since it is a quid pro quo that involves receiving something of personal value (imaginary dirt on Biden) for the discharge of official acts that must not be conditioned on non-official transactions, it constitutes a grave abuse of power and is considered bribery as defined by the Founding Fathers, i.e. the US Constitution.

Thus, the accusation (quid pro quo = abuse of power = bribery) has not been changed once. These are different words used in different contexts all amounting to the same charge: high crime and misdemeanor.

Please spare yourself the embarrassment of claiming Trump did not do it for personal gain: His hand-picked ambassador testified under oath that Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine other than to get dirt on Biden. That is perfectly in line not only with Trump's entire biography and everything we know of his character, it is also on display every time Trump talks about other countries. His disregard for other countries lies at the core of his idea of 'America First'.

All that I have said can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. None of what you said can.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Many are corrupt and vote against the interests of a majority of citizens. When everyone is focused on tweets and culture wars, they pass through a majority of legally binding bills or measures (not including trivial matters such as naming post offices) with no debate over the merits of those measures
 

Maou

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Have you watched any of the House hearings?

Trump coerced Ukraine into pretending to investigate Biden in exchange for a White House meeting and military aid. That is a quid pro quo, whether Ukraine follows through or not (the plan was only abandoned and the aid released when it became public). Since it is a quid pro quo that involves receiving something of personal value (imaginary dirt on Biden) for the discharge of official acts that must not be conditioned on non-official transactions, it constitutes a grave abuse of power and is considered bribery as defined by the Founding Fathers, i.e. the US Constitution.

Thus, the accusation (quid pro quo = abuse of power = bribery) has not been changed once. These are different words used in different contexts all amounting to the same charge: high crime and misdemeanor.

Please spare yourself the embarrassment of claiming Trump did not do it for personal gain: His hand-picked ambassador testified under oath that Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine other than to get dirt on Biden. That is perfectly in line not only with Trump's entire biography and everything we know of his character, it is also on display every time Trump talks about other countries. His disregard for other countries lies at the core of his idea of 'America First'.

All that I have said can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. None of what you said can.

This is all based on he said, she said, and the media lying about what it meant. I watched a lot of the hearings, and its blatantly obvious who was honest, and who was preaching to the choir. There is zero hard evidence, that is enough to convict and Trump knows it. Soon as it goes to court, the circus will end and the Democrats gotta find a new scandal to manufacture like the Russian collusion all over again.
 

Nicodemus

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This is all based on he said, she said, and the media lying about what it meant. I watched a lot of the hearings, and its blatantly obvious who was honest, and who was preaching to the choir.
Either you are lying or you are really unqualified to live unsupervised...

There is zero hard evidence, that is enough to convict and Trump knows it.
There is plently of evidence. What would you consider hard evidence?

Soon as it goes to court, the circus will end and the Democrats gotta find a new scandal to manufacture like the Russian collusion all over again.
It is not going to any court. It goes to the Senate, where McConnell will turn it into a circus.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Please spare yourself the embarrassment of claiming Trump did not do it for personal gain: His hand-picked ambassador testified under oath that Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine other than to get dirt on Biden. That is perfectly in line not only with Trump's entire biography and everything we know of his character, it is also on display every time Trump talks about other countries. His disregard for other countries lies at the core of his idea of 'America First'.

She thinks Trump plays 5d chess. Thus, that was not "the real Trump."
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I think that's why this stubborn insistence on defending Trump and arguing he has integrity and cares about the public interest just boggles my mind. He's been a public figure for decades and there have been multiple accounts detailing his selfish, narcissistic, vindictive nature. Are we really to believe that there's been a decades long conspiracy to attempt to lie about and discredit him?

As Nico described him, he's been a known quantity for a while.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I think that's why this stubborn insistence on defending Trump and arguing he has integrity and cares about the public interest just boggles my mind. He's been a public figure for decades and there have been multiple accounts detailing his selfish, narcissistic, vindictive nature. Are we really to believe that there's been a decades long conspiracy to attempt to lie about and discredit him?

It's part of his 5d chess. That's just what he wants people think to distract people so he can successfully drain the swamp.
 

Maou

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She thinks Trump plays 5d chess. Thus, that was not "the real Trump."

Dont take what I said, and over simplify it to actively mislead people about me. I can defend myself thank you.

And no, this impeachment to me is a test to see if our balances of power still work, despite the rampant abuse of power on the Democrats side. Their goal is to smear Trump as much as they can before the election. Because honestly, I dont think they believe they can beat him. We will wait and see who is right.

But when all this is said and done, and it turns out I am right. I will rub it in, and will much appreciate an apology for being called stupid, ignorant, and uneducated by several people. If they can set aside their seething rage to act like an adult long enough to do so. If Trump does get removed from office, I will admit hes a bad president and a narcissist, and apologize for voting for him.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Dont take what I said, and over simplify it to actively mislead people about me. I can defend myself thank you.

And no, this impeachment to me is a test to see if our balances of power still work, despite the rampant abuse of power on the Democrats side. Their goal is to smear Trump as much as they can before the election. Because honestly, I dont think they believe they can beat him. We will wait and see who is right.

But when all this is said and done, and it turns out I am right. I will rub it in, and will much appreciate an apology for being called stupid, ignorant, and uneducated by several people. If they can set aside their seething rage to act like an adult long enough to do so. If Trump does get removed from office, I will admit hes a bad president and a narcissist, and apologize for voting for him.

Prior to my post, you implied I was an idiot (although phrased in MBTI-speak, which can give you plausible deniability, I suppose) for thinking Trump should be impeached. I don't see myself calling you an idiot here even after you did that to me, although I did call your premises into question.

Attack the argument, not the person.
 

Maou

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Prior to my post, you implied I was an idiot (although phrased in MBTI-speak, which can give you plausible deniability, I suppose) for thinking Trump should be impeached. I don't see myself calling you an idiot here even after you did that to me, although I did call your premises into question.

Attack the argument, not the person.

Not even referring to you, but I did speak generally to the thread about turning in thinker cards lol. I was in a bad mood then and thought it was funny. Anyways, its mostly Nico that I find irritaiting and rude in the way he speaks to me, or about a few other peoples thoughts and opinions. No wonder people avoid these toxic threads, no one can respect each other. They are so confident in their opinions, and only see what they want to see.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I don’t think you’re an idiot, but I am perplexed by the loyalty to Trump and continued insistence he is innocent of any wrongdoing.
 

highlander

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Have you watched any of the House hearings?

Trump coerced Ukraine into pretending to investigate Biden in exchange for a White House meeting and military aid. That is a quid pro quo, whether Ukraine follows through or not (the plan was only abandoned and the aid released when it became public). Since it is a quid pro quo that involves receiving something of personal value (imaginary dirt on Biden) for the discharge of official acts that must not be conditioned on non-official transactions, it constitutes a grave abuse of power and is considered bribery as defined by the Founding Fathers, i.e. the US Constitution.

Thus, the accusation (quid pro quo = abuse of power = bribery) has not been changed once. These are different words used in different contexts all amounting to the same charge: high crime and misdemeanor.

Please spare yourself the embarrassment of claiming Trump did not do it for personal gain: His hand-picked ambassador testified under oath that Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine other than to get dirt on Biden. That is perfectly in line not only with Trump's entire biography and everything we know of his character, it is also on display every time Trump talks about other countries. His disregard for other countries lies at the core of his idea of 'America First'.

All that I have said can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. None of what you said can.

I agree with every word of this actually. You articulated it very well. I suppose I have watched about 20 hours of the hearings so far. You can't really understand things without watching or reading the testimony. Headlines posted in media dont come close to providing a real understanding. I have always had concerns about the guy but the complete lack of competence in his decision making plus prioritizing self interest over the interests of the US (or the world for that matter) is a lethal combination. Its toxic leadership.
 

highlander

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highlander

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This is all based on he said, she said, and the media lying about what it meant. I watched a lot of the hearings, and its blatantly obvious who was honest, and who was preaching to the choir. There is zero hard evidence, that is enough to convict and Trump knows it. Soon as it goes to court, the circus will end and the Democrats gotta find a new scandal to manufacture like the Russian collusion all over again.
I do find it interesting that there are some people who appear to have the same impression as you do. The one professor - Truley is an example. He seemed to be a very level headed guy. I came to a completely different conclusion. The evidence against Trump seemed obvious and compelling. The witnesses seemed remarkably consistent as well.

I wonder if the difference might be typologically based or what might cause that.
 
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