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Is white nationalism necessarily racist?

Maou

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Time to step into the fire. :unsure:

Any people(s) who wish to establish a nation where there is appreciation of one's culture and history, as well as maintaining tradition and racial identity isn't nessicarily racist in my eyes. Racism requires hatred, and excluding others from a group to avoid racial problems isn't racist. (We see it in colleges all the time with safe spaces, willing race segregation etc. Why are whites supposedly excluded? If exclusion is racist, safe spaces are racist.) Pride in one's ancestors isn't racist.

It is only when they flaunt or espouse superiority and treat others like shit that it becomes a problem. But keeping to yourself, and politely rejecting others is fine imo. Especially if a group feels persecuted.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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White pride shouldn't be confused with German pride, Irish pride, Belgian pride, Italian pride, et al. Pride for or enjoyment of one's cultural heritage is perfectly fine. White nationalism however, doesn't really do that. It attempts to create a monolith out of all historically white cultures, based on presumptions that whiteness itself, rather than the distinct attributes and achievements of those individual and diverse cultures, is the virtue to be celebrated.

Similarly, there's a difference between black pride and say, Nigerian pride or Kenyan pride. I would argue the latter is fine, the former is dangerously close to what we see with white nationalism. We see it inching its way into movements like BLM, and at its worst, mirroring the tribal identitarianism of the white nationalists.

Cultural pride is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think ethnonationalism like we see with neo-Nazis and Farrakhan's Nation of Islam are misguided, misinformed ideologies because they create an 'us and them' distinction where the in-group's value is always measured against the value some supposed out-group (almost always reduced to the "white devil" archetype, or the image of the African savage trying to steal the white women away, the evil Jew attempting to control culture and finance, or some other boogeyman), based almost exclusively on their differences (often the most superficial and obvious ones), and rarely on their commonalities. The commonalities almost always outweigh and outnumber the differences, so why focus on and obsess over the differences? We're all in this miserable game together.
 

ceecee

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Pride in one's ancestors isn't racist.

It's not. But that wasn't the question, was it?

Let's look at the definition of nationalism.

na·tion·al·ism
/ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌlizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

If you support nationalism, you should support everyone in the US and their interests. Race, religion, gender, education, income level...should be irrelevant.

The OP added "white" to the question of nationalism. Is white nationalism necessarily racist? As soon as you add a single race in front of nationalism, it's no longer about the single country, everyone in it and their interests. It's about one single race, the interests of that single race, white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of nonwhites. And the exclusionary element that differentiates nationalism from patriotism.

You can argue carefully that there is no racist element to white nationalism, and I find that amusing because if race had no bearing on it, the white addition to nationalism would be pointless and never included.

There are majority white nations in this world. My suggestion is that any white person pining for a white ethnostate should go live in one of them.
 

Lark

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There's one race, the human race.

When it comes to bad ideas that dont deserve to be revived racism is right up there but when people are shit out of ideas I guess they'll grasp at straws like that.
 

Lark

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Pride in one's ancestors isn't racist.

If your whole conception of ancestors has got to do with racism it does.

Like its not genealogy that's being talked about.

This is the sort of thing that appeals to children and adolescents and adults who still think and feel as children and adolescents do.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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There's one race, the human race.

When it comes to bad ideas that dont deserve to be revived racism is right up there but when people are shit out of ideas I guess they'll grasp at straws like that.

There is no race, only the human species. The differences between most ethnic groups aren't even enough to warrant classification as separate subspecies (that would take at least tens of thousands of years of separate human populations being isolated from one another, and then only assuming that the environment actually pushed them in divergent directions, but for the most part, there are no human populations in recent millennia that have been isolated from other populations long enough to lead to a divergence. There was Homo neanderthalensis but they died out.). Race itself is merely a concept developed fairly recently in human history. It's not surprising people began popularizing it with the advent of the colonial period.
 

Lark

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This thread is an example of that whole "who cares if they are for or against us so long as they're talking about us" amplification thing.

I care for it about as much as I do for the whole liberal misandry and pushing homosexuality at every opportunity.

Call me when both are finally done.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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This thread is an example of that whole "who cares if they are for or against us so long as they're talking about us" amplification thing.

I care for it about as much as I do for the whole liberal misandry and pushing homosexuality at every opportunity.

Call me when both are finally done.

I'd like to discuss your hang-ups about homosexuality, but perhaps this thread isn't the place.
 
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Race itself is merely a concept developed fairly recently in human history. It's not surprising people began popularizing it with the advent of the colonial period.

I think you might be right in that it was a rather recent phenomenon. As in the title of Charles Darwin's book:
On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. This in no way proves that thesis, but rather illustrates that it was being used at least as far back as the Victorian era.

Perhaps, prior to that they weren't so apt to call ethnic groups as "races" and more "peoples," like a separate people, but not a different species altogether as the word "race" connotes. It was probably more common to say tribal name-ite: Semite - tribe of Shem. Midianite - tribe of Midian. etc.
 

Luminous

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I've really been slacking off! Gotta meet my quotas!!!

200w.webp
 

Lark

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I'd like to discuss your hang-ups about homosexuality, but perhaps this thread isn't the place.

I dont know why you would.

Its less to do with homosexuality (which I could care less about, people believe and do all kinds of things and manage to keep it to themselves) than it is to do with how and why its promoted aggressively as part of a normative struggle.

As I've said before I'm about as interested in that as I am in out of steam conservatives turning to racism to try and keep peoples attention.
 

The Cat

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the sir doth protest too much methinks. :blush:
 

Lark

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I think you might be right in that it was a rather recent phenomenon. As in the title of Charles Darwin's book:
On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. This in no way proves that thesis, but rather illustrates that it was being used at least as far back as the Victorian era.

Perhaps, prior to that they weren't so apt to call ethnic groups as "races" and more "peoples," like a separate people, but not a different species altogether as the word "race" connotes. It was probably more common to say tribal name-ite: Semite - tribe of Shem. Midianite - tribe of Midian. etc.

Well, there's the anti-semitism on cue.
 

Lark

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the sir doth protest too much methinks. :blush:

Well, glad all the reasons why its pretty impossible to take issue with the political homosexuality could make it to the thread.

I'll go back to lurking and the who neo nazi heebee jeebee haulla balloo can get on with things.
 

Tellenbach

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It's not the same thing in the USA, but it's probably the same in other lesser nations. I expect every American to be a nationalist since this is the greatest nation that has ever existed on this planet. It doesn't matter if you are white, black, or brown; you should be proud that the USA makes great movies, liberated a bunch of people from assholes, and invented a boatload of cool stuff.

On the other hand, if you're a white nationalist in some pissant Euro country, then you're probably a racist.

If by "white nationalism", you mean pride and feelings of superiority based on whiteness, that's racism...and also ignorance and stupidity.
 
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