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Random Politics Thread

Virtual ghost

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Well, voters are certainly being primed to be accept that because of punditry about the virtuous stand of principled conservatives like Liz Cheney.

Could Joe Biden sign a DOMA style bathroom bill/transgender athlete bill as a result? Perhaps I'm wrong and I'm discounting Joe Biden's firm track record of always sticking up for progressive positions.

On the other hand, you have the pandemic and all the economic issues associated with it which do not lead to the popularity of a neoliberal attitude towards things like the economy and health care. Perhaps they will move right on social issues, while moving left on economic issues.


The main problem with people like Liz is that if you embrace her you will start to lose votes on the left. Perhaps even to the point that those people turn to the Trumpism due to their revolutionary populist massage. After all Trumpists are generally just working class going rogue due to how economy works today. People like Liz have a part to play in all this but placing them too close to the center of Democratic party can be dangerous.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The main problem with people like Liz is that if you embrace her you will start to lose votes on the left. Perhaps even to the point that those people turn to the Trumpism due to their revolutionary populist massage. After all Trumpists are generally just working class going rogue due to how economy works today. People like Liz have a part to play in all this but placing them too close to the center of Democratic party can be dangerous.

I agree with that. I feel like this attitude is too close to celebrating Liz Cheney as some kind of heroic martyr for the good of the nation, which I take severe issue with. She seems to be just as terrible as her father and just hasn't had a chance to do as much damage. Praising terrible people because they do the bare minimum that's expected of them doesn't seem like a great thing for the country, either. I think even seeing this as a principled stand on her part because she shares some "core principles" with the center left is probably a mistake. More than anything else, I'll bet it's her misjudging the political moment she's in and she'll probably pivot soon enough and then all the people who saw her as a hero will be like "What the hell Liz, what happened?" I mean Lindsay Graham did the same thing, and people act like that's some kind of mystery. No, he did what spineless opportunistic politicians always do which is shift where the wind is blowing. And yes, a lot of them really don't care if it benefits the country if they can get something out of it. That's hyper-individualism for you.

And I definitely have issue with the idea that the main takeaway from this is that populism is bad. No, American populists opposed imperialist wars like the Spanish-American war (where we liberated Cuba and have had excellent relations with them ever since) and tried to work across racial divides. What is bad is demagoguery. Scapegoating current problems on people not responsible for them, like immigrants or single moms, is what the problem is. They're not the ones who have been pushing the idea of trickle-down economics, deindustrialization, and Wall Street bailouts. The response is not to push "moderate" neoliberal policies most people don't actually want anymore, but offer a real alternative to demagoguery.
 

Virtual ghost

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I agree with that. I feel like this attitude is too close to celebrating Liz Cheney as some kind of heroic martyr for the good of the nation, which I take severe issue with. She seems to be just as terrible as her father and just hasn't had a chance to do as much damage. Praising terrible people because they do the bare minimum that's expected of them doesn't seem like a great thing for the country, either. I think even seeing this as a principled stand on her part because she shares some "core principles" with the center left is probably a mistake. More than anything else, I'll bet it's her misjudging the political moment she's in and she'll probably pivot soon enough and then all the people who saw her as a hero will be like "What the hell Liz, what happened?" I mean Lindsay Graham did the same thing, and people act like that's some kind of mystery. No, he did what spineless politicians always do which is shift where the wind is blowing. And yes, a lot of them really don't care if it benefits the country if they can get something out of it. That's hyper-individualism for you.

And I definitely have issue with the idea with all of this that populism is bad. No, American populists opposed imperialist wars like the Spanish-American war and tried to work across racial divides. What is bad is demagoguery. Scapegoating current problems on people not responsible for them, like immigrants or single moms, is what the problem is. They're not the ones who have been pushing the idea of trickle-down economics, deindustrialization, and Wall Street bailouts. The response is not to push "moderate" neoliberal policies most people don't actually want anymore, but offer a real alternative to demagoguery.



This is exactly why I like multi party systems. Here this kind of political throwing out at the street happens fairly often and for all kinds of reasons. So with this happening she would just go to some other right wing party, or she would start her own if she has enough name recognition and political talent. While left would keep her at the distance.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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This is exactly why I like multi party systems. Here this kind of political throwing out at the street happens fairly often and for all kinds of reasons. So with this happening she would just go to some other right wing party, or she would start her own if she has enough name recognition and political talent. While left would keep her at the distance.

That would be ideal, but we can't change our system because it was given to us by the Divine Founding Fathers, apparently.
 

Lark

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That would be ideal, but we can't change our system because it was given to us by the Divine Founding Fathers, apparently.

I find stuff like that highly, highly ironic given the actual spirit and beliefs of the foundation of the US and founding acts, rather than this abstraction "founding fathers" idea.

It was meant to be about avoiding/abolishing the power of old money, dynastic power, aristocracies, factions, inherited privileges and the sorts of traditionalism and aversion to innovation which protects and preserves all those things.

Its crazy the extent to which conservative americans are so, so much like the British that where their ancestors enemies. Crazy the extent to which they are proud of that fact even.
 

Virtual ghost

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I find stuff like that highly, highly ironic given the actual spirit and beliefs of the foundation of the US and founding acts, rather than this abstraction "founding fathers" idea.

It was meant to be about avoiding/abolishing the power of old money, dynastic power, aristocracies, factions, inherited privileges and the sorts of traditionalism and aversion to innovation which protects and preserves all those things.

Its crazy the extent to which conservative americans are so, so much like the British that where their ancestors enemies. Crazy the extent to which they are proud of that fact even.



Well, back in a day American system was indeed quite progressive. But as the time went by this started to change, since this was always seen as progressive as in the day it was made. While multi party democracy, snap elections, everyone votes, TV/internet that can really shorten the campaigns/drama .... that was just too much for 18th century.
 

Maou

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I-40 bridge shutdown in Memphis could be a 'disaster' for distribution, economist warns

Memphis bridge is shut down indefinitely due to one of the support beams literally being cracked in half. This is a serious "vein" in the network of highways that connects Tennessee to Arkansas. Meaning even more shipment problems will affect the east coast, along side the fuel shortages going on right now.

I-40-bridge-inspectors.jpg
 

ceecee

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Colonial Pipeline resumes operation after hack, fuel shortages may last several more days | WCIV

The Colonial Pipeline Company halted operations on May 7 after learning it had been the victim of a cybersecurity ransomware attack. The company in response took certain systems offline to contain the threat, which included temporarily halting all pipeline operations.

There never was an actual shortage. Seriously, if they don't start putting the breaks on these insane hysterical hoarding people, the supply chains will never be back to normal for anything.
 

Z Buck McFate

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yet for whatever reason they refuse to acknowledge that since he won in 2016 the party has lost more and more government control.

I think the prevailing theory is that all their new laws to make voting harder (in spite of voter fraud being exceptionally rare) is an acknowledgement of it? They wouldn't be desperately scrambling to remove more power from voters if they didn't know full well they need even more voter suppression and gerrymandering to stay in power.

It is a bit mystifying that they aren't even trying to expand their base when they're in such a clear minority (to have lost the White House and Congress, even with electoral college and wildly gerrymandered districts), but they really do appear to be only doubling down on strengthening the loyalty of their minority base and putting *all* their chips on maintaining power through other means. Like, they're lying about it in a half-assed way that only their own minority believes (protection from further voter fraud), but it's stunning they're getting away with such stupid lies about it. And it's stunning they believe fucking the majority of the country to keep power is even remotely a sustainable model.
 

Red Herring

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To all those finding it hard to believe that software and algorithms can be biased:

My (professional!) machine translation software just translated "president" as "Herr Präsident" (Mr. President).:huh:
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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To all those finding it hard to believe that software and algorithms can be biased:

My (professional!) machine translation software just translated "president" as "Herr Präsident" (Mr. President).:huh:

I've been reading about character encodings for computers a lot lately, and one thing that was interesting to me was how biased, in the old days, computers were towards the Latin characters. No matter where in the world a computer was it would typically represent Latin characters and the local language, but not really be able to represent anything else. Even today the bias is present in Unicode because the original ASCII characters, which were all Latin, all take less space to encode than most of the other characters. To me it's interesting because it highlights the extent to which history influenced the development of a universal standard.
 

Red Herring

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Oh, it gets even better. The spellchecker asked of I really wanted to write "Kandidatin" (female candidate) rather than "Kandidat" (male candidate). Am I on hidden camera?!


This spellchecker is lousy though as it uses an extremely limited dictionary even though the translation software is expensive and one of the best on the market. I'll have to train it for ages before it stops constantly marking normal compound words as unknown/false...

But take this from me - machine translation has come a long way but still makes ridiculously silly mistakes and will continue to do so as long as it is context-blind.!
 

ceecee

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I said Israel was an apartheid state some time back and I got all kinds of flack for it. Perhaps it's because I remember well the approach the US took to S. Africa - it vocally opposed, supported boycotts and sanctions. Exactly the way a "democratic" country should approach apartheid - you don't get to pick what human rights matter and what don't. Of course the US was also an apartheid state but that's a whole other conversation. But it is very good to see some politicians not bending the knee to the Israel lobby or the Christian Zionism movement in the US that fuels MUCH of the issue here.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I said Israel was an apartheid state some time back and I got all kinds of flack for it. Perhaps it's because I remember well the approach the US took to S. Africa - it vocally opposed, supported boycotts and sanctions. Exactly the way a "democratic" country should approach apartheid - you don't get to pick what human rights matter and what don't. Of course the US was also an apartheid state but that's a whole other conversation. But it is very good to see some politicians not bending the knee to the Israel lobby or the Christian Zionism movement in the US that fuels MUCH of the issue here.

I think if we as a country were to provide real pushback instead of the boilerplate "we support the only democracy in the Middle East stuff" it could actually make a big difference in what's going on. Probably would put the Israeli right (which has been dominant for at least 20 years) in a very bad position. In this case, the U.S. not cheerleading the this stuff on for once could actually matter.

Of course, I don't think that would happen.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Oh noes. Is Rose McGowen working her way into politics? Is she planning to be a Trump/Hillary hybrid love child?
 

The Cat

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Links for donations to the workers in the video comments...
:solidarity:
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Oh noes. Is Rose McGowen working her way into politics? Is she planning to be a Trump/Hillary hybrid love child?

I don't really have an opinion on Rose McGowan. I've tried to steer clear of the whole #MeToo topic; I don't support sexual assault but I'm uncomfortable with the concept of "Believe All Women"; I'm not really sure we should be pushing the idea that anyone accused of a crime is automatically guilty. I mean the accusations against Neil DeGrasse Tyson ,for instance, were complete bullshit, but people acting like having skepticism about them made you a terrible person. So it's just something I've stayed away from.

I will say that I find the very idea of a Trump/Hillary hybrid to be extremely disturbing and unholy. Kill it with fire!
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I don't really have an opinion on Rose McGowan. I've tried to steer clear of the whole #MeToo topic; I don't support sexual assault but I'm uncomfortable with the concept of "Believe All Women"; I'm not really sure we should be pushing the idea that anyone accused of a crime is automatically guilty. I mean the accusations against Neil DeGrasse Tyson ,for instance, were complete bullshit, but people acting like having skepticism about them made you a terrible person. So it's just something I've stayed away from.

I will say that I find the very idea of a Trump/Hillary hybrid to be extremely disturbing and unholy. Kill it with fire!
I watched her interviews regarding MeToo, and have sympathy for her having to deal with Weinstein. There is a brutality and tunnel vision about her that I saw when she was presenting her MeToo talk and book at a bookstore and a woman stood up and asked her why she didn't fight for or address the issue of transgendered women in prison. Rose's response was absolutely brutal as she progresses. It completely turned me off from her. She should not be in authority. I think she is too self-centered and non-rationalistic to lead. She might mean well in terms of having encapsulated moral ideals, but could never take into account an informed or empathetic response to an entire diverse population.

 
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