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Random Politics Thread

Red Herring

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My country is currently ruled by a coalition of center-right and center-left. The center-left just elected a new leadership duo. The previous leader had an approval rating of 49% among his own fellow party members and 69% among members of the center-right.
Wrap your head around that, Brits and Americans!
 

Virtual ghost

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My country is currently ruled by a coalition of center-right and center-left. The center-left just elected a new leadership duo. The previous leader had an approval rating of 49% among his own fellow party members and 69% among members of the center-right.
Wrap your head around that, Brits and Americans!



This can't really be more simple, you change the leadership when it is doing so bad job that your opponents love it. :D




Just a few comments.


Anyway I was watching an interview with Boris's brother on my local TV and the guy said that Corbyn would be an absolute disaster for UK for EU, for economy, for "everything" ... etc. However then he started to name policies and it turned out my country has all of them already implemented or implemented in more "radical" form (by conservatives). It was a good laugh but in a way it rally is strange what passes as "radical left" in English speaking countries.



However I saw one more interesting thing that made me google and that lead me to this.




What kinda explains some of my interactions here, since I am indeed used not to see homeless people wondering around. Here there are no masses that live in tents and camping trailers (what we also count as homeless). The funny part is that this was reported as a disgrace since the number isn't pure 0. However this isn't surprising since in this country "home" is considered both sacred and in a way basic human right. What is probably mostly the outcome of history, almost 900 years without the independent state and home kinda replaced that. Plus 20th century wars on our soil made the system(s) which have to potentially care for everyone. While taking families out of houses due to debt or whatever is generally considered morally bankrupt because this is physical move that fascism and communism were doing constantly. I think we recently even made laws that make it illegal to throw people out if this is their last real estate or family farm. Therefore debts will have to be returned in some other way over time.


My point is simply that this is mostly a matter of mindset.
Food for thought.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I saw a faded Nixon/Agnew '72 sticker on an old Plymouth the other day.
 

Jaguar

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“Nihilistic forces are dismantling policies to protect our air, water, and climate,” Volcker wrote at the end of “Keeping At It: The Quest for Sound Money and Good Government.” “And they seek to discredit the pillars of our democracy: voting rights and fair elections, the rule of law, the free press, the separation of powers, the belief in science, and the concept of truth itself.”


Paul Volcker ripped into Trump and 'nihilistic forces' undermining US
 

Red Herring

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This can't really be more simple, you change the leadership when it is doing so bad job that your opponents love it. :D
.

It's a bit more complicated. For one, they are simulateously competitors and partners in a coalition. They have a coalition contract they signed and carry responsibility for the wellbeing of the country. As tge smaller party of the coalition they are government and opposition at the same time.

What I Was trying to point out was that in Germany cooperation between parties, compromise and working across the aisle are ist very important here. Stability is a national obsession.

The problems of social democrats around the world are also structural rather than personell related.
 

Red Herring

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Could you elaborate?

The moderate left (SPD in Germany, Labour in the UK, PSOE in Spain, Socialists in Francesco etc) underwent a transformation after the end of the cold war. It was called New Labour, the third way or even the purple way. Basically, moving towards the center in fiscal and economic matters with some social progressive window dressing. In Germany it was the social democrats who introduced the harshest welfare reforms. Schröder (the center-left chancellor that followed Kohl in the late nineties, was convinced that they were absolutely necessary and "better we do it and prevent the worst than let the right kill it off completely" (I'm summarizing here).

Back in the nineties a conciderable part of the industrialized world had center-left governments. But with the cold war being over and the famously greedbased eighties in their back and the all signs pointing to capitalism being the best system and ecomic liberalism being pushed very heavily and with what Germans call Reformstau (meaning a backlog of necessary reforms) on the table they were a bit too willing to "be reasonable" and compromise. They tried to salvage the welfare state and social cohesion by making lots of concessions. Many started to believe in trickle down style economics.

It is hard to say what would have happened without those developments. But they seriously alienated their former core voter base - blue collar workers and small employees. They tried to make up for that with a little social progressivism, but others could offer that more convincingly (in Germany the Greens are now the second largest party). Educated liberal voters moved to the Greens or the Libertarians or other alternatives. The former voter base partially moved to the far left or far right.
Meanwhile the center-right became socially progressive enough to absorb a huge part of the center. Those who disagree with that move to the center that e.g. Merkel stands for in Germany now vote for the far-right.
Austria is another country where the center-right and center-left cooperated for so long that people got tired of it and backed the far right.

Basically, these parties used to serve the function of fighting for a social safety net and a certain level of redistribution at times when Joe Average was working in a factory producing goods in his home town. Thanks to globalisation those days are long gone and there is no turning back the clock. Problems like the effects of global trade, demographic change, digitalisation, climate change, etc require international solutions and supranational cooperation. But that is a hard sell these days. The far left proclaims to be for it but keeps on with unhelpful populist talking points. The far right is totally against it of course and the moderate right does a little bit of it, just enough to keep business lobbyists happy and the populatione not angry enough to care. The moderate left is strangely visionless and silent in all this. A party of old folks with yesterday's solutions for the problems of tomorrow. Being all softspoken and willing to compromise, but with absolutely no bold vision. Naturally a lack of attractive candidates doesn't help either (in the case of Germany, France and the UK at least).
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The moderate left (SPD in Germany, Labour in the UK, PSOE in Spain, Socialists in Francesco etc) underwent a transformation after the end of the cold war. It was called New Labour, the third way or even the purple way. Basically, moving towards the center in fiscal and economic matters with some social progressive window dressing. In Germany it was the social democrats who introduced the harshest welfare reforms. Schröder (the center-left chancellor that followed Kohl in the late nineties, was convinced that they were absolutely necessary and "better we do it and prevent the worst than let the right kill it off completely" (I'm summarizing here).

Back in the nineties a conciderable part of the industrialized world had center-left governments. But with the cold war being over and the famously greedbased eighties in their back and the all signs pointing to capitalism being the best system and ecomic liberalism being pushed very heavily and with what Germans call Reformstau (meaning a backlog of necessary reforms) on the table they were a bit too willing to "be reasonable" and compromise. They tried to salvage the welfare state and social cohesion by making lots of concessions. Many started to believe in trickle down style economics.

It is hard to say what would have happened without those developments. But they seriously alienated their former core voter base - blue collar workers and small employees. They tried to make up for that with a little social progressivism, but others could offer that more convincingly (in Germany the Greens are now the second largest party). Educated liberal voters moved to the Greens or the Libertarians or other alternatives. The former voter base partially moved to the far left or far right.
Meanwhile the center-right became socially progressive enough to absorb a huge part of the center. Those who disagree with that move to the center that e.g. Merkel stands for in Germany now vote for the far-right.
Austria is another country where the center-right and center-left cooperated for so long that people got tired of it and backed the far right.

Basically, these parties used to serve the function of fighting for a social safety net and a certain level of redistribution at times when Joe Average was working in a factory producing goods in his home town. Thanks to globalisation those days are long gone and there is no turning back the clock. Problems like the effects of global trade, demographic change, digitalisation, climate change, etc require international solutions and supranational cooperation. But that is a hard sell these days. The far left proclaims to be for it but keeps on with unhelpful populist talking points. The far right is totally against it of course and the moderate right does a little bit of it, just enough to keep business lobbyists happy and the populatione not angry enough to care. The moderate left is strangely visionless and silent in all this. A party of old folks with yesterday's solutions for the problems of tomorrow. Being all softspoken and willing to compromise, but with absolutely no bold vision. Naturally a lack of attractive candidates doesn't help either (in the case of Germany, France and the UK at least).


Hmm, it sounds a bit like the dynamics that were in play during the run-up to 2016, the major difference being the presence of more than just two parties. In the U.S. it's just different factions within the same party. To me it didn't seem like Hillary had very much in the way of vision (and I'd argue the same is true for Biden). In the U.S. in the 90s, Bill did similar things with regards to welfare (although I'm not sure if the talking points are the same), and also loosening regulations on the telecommunications industry (just to name the two examples I'm aware of, although I'm sure there are more).

I'll end up voting for what is considered to be a far-left candidate in the primaries (which one depends on who is left in the running), but I doubt the majority of Democratic primary voters will end up going the same way. Given that, I suppose Buttigieg is the best chance, even though I probably won't vote for him in the primaries. He has benefits most of the other centrist candidates don't have, which is having a vision as well as much less baggage.

With regards to international solutions and unhelpful populism on the far left, I'm curious to hear more about that as well. Would this be with regards to anti-E.U. sentiment, or is there more to it than that?
 

ceecee

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I wonder when the antisemitism accusations will be leveled at Bernie Sanders. I know he is Jewish, that's irrelevant. But this will be the final attack the left and right use against anyone or anything progressive, it's all they've got left.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I wonder when the antisemitism accusations will be leveled at Bernie Sanders. I know he is Jewish, that's irrelevant. But this will be the final attack the left and right use against anyone or anything progressive, it's all they've got left.

I think at the moment, they're just content with the general racism accusations.
 

Red Herring

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co-sp-2019-051-0001-ipad.ebfbe5c.jpg


The frontpage of an important political weekly: "Yes, He can - Why Donald Trump simply gets away with everything"
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I for one am offended to see Trump portrayed as King Kong. Kong is a hero. Trump is a Ghidorah, at best
 
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