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Random Politics Thread

Jaguar

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“HE DIED LIKE A DOG,” Trump said of Baghdadi. The world is now a much safer place.”

Not while you're still in office, bucko.

Trump also said this was bigger than Osama Bin Laden.

Tell that to these people:

 

Nicodemus

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“HE DIED LIKE A DOG,” Trump said of Baghdadi. The world is now a much safer place.”

Not while you're still in office, bucko.

Trump also said this was bigger than Osama Bin Laden.

Tell that to these people:

Killing bin Laden was significant because he was a symbol. Surely, most Americans had and have virtually no idea who Baghdadi even was. Both men were immediately replaced by new leaders, so taking them out really only mattered to the Amercian psyche; and there, killing a symbol is obviously more impactful than killing a random bad dude half a world away.
 

ceecee

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Killing bin Laden was significant because he was a symbol. Surely, most Americans had and have virtually no idea who Baghdadi even was. Both men were immediately replaced by new leaders, so taking them out really only mattered to the Amercian psyche; and there, killing a symbol is obviously more impactful than killing a random bad dude half a world away.

The problem is that the impression the above clip give and the speeches from Obama and Trump provide regular people is that this enemy has been taken care of. They haven't. And many Americans can't even grasp just how much responsibility for these groups lay directly with the US foreign policy.

Bush and Obama certainly wanted to keep it that way and Trump doesn't listen or read so he's hopeless on the subject. There are plenty of Americans that think Al-Queda died with Bin Laden. There are plenty of Americans that think ISIS died with Baghdadi. And then act shocked when they learn none of that was true.
 

Virtual ghost

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I was thinking about saying something on the topic but I thought that would be kinda rude. I mean number one rule of guerilla warfare is not to have solid center that the stronger opponent can hit and that would be it. For every leader you kill they have dozens of replacements at all points.



Actually the leader is already replaced.

IS declares new leader after death of al-Baghdadi


Therefore this entire show and bragging about the achievement is nothing more than another case of ...


 

Jaguar

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The problem is that the impression the above clip give and the speeches from Obama and Trump provide regular people is that this enemy has been taken care of. They haven't. And many Americans can't even grasp just how much responsibility for these groups lay directly with the US foreign policy.

Bush and Obama certainly wanted to keep it that way and Trump doesn't listen or read so he's hopeless on the subject. There are plenty of Americans that think Al-Queda died with Bin Laden. There are plenty of Americans that think ISIS died with Baghdadi. And then act shocked when they learn none of that was true.

Not really. GW simply said "The people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." I don't know anyone who thought terrorism would end with bin Laden's death. Why would it? There's no logic there. While bin Laden was alive he made it perfectly clear, in no uncertain terms, why he had a beef with the U.S. Our support of "Jews who were killing Muslims" angered him. It was the driving force for everything. Peter Bergen secured an interview with bin Laden in the 90's and I've never forgotten bin Laden calling Bill Clinton a traitor, but didn't state why. It was in that moment that I knew the U.S. could be attacked one day - bin Laden never struck me as someone who just talked trash, like a U.S. citizen would who was trying to sound macho. That was never his style. Has the U.S. stopped supporting Israel? No. At least no one can claim the U.S. wasn't warned. Repeatedly.

As for al- Baghdadi? Just one name. Hardly a reason to think it's the end of anything.
 

Jaguar

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Donald Trump Jr. leaves the stage because right-wing protesters are yelling at him? Refreshing.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I think conservatives are more afraid than anyone.

I agree. But I think the problem isn't conservatism or liberalism ,it's ultraconservatism and ultraliberalism, which are stubborn and uncooperative ideologies. We need a certain level of conservatism--imagine a speeding car and the old guy in the backseat who says "woah, maybe we should slow down and look where we're going. We don't even have headlights on". But we also need a certain level of liberalism or we never even drive the car anywhere new.

It's natural for a healthy pull between conservatism and liberalism. Ideally they should clash and then new ideas or policies emerge from the clash. The Hegelian Dialectic. That doesn't really happen with the polarized extremes like we see now.
 

Jaguar

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Wall Street worries that Trump may have oversold the likelihood of a China trade deal

What else is new? Someone should check into his cabal for possible insider trading violations. Christ, with all his fake news, you could make a fortune buying and selling options ahead of time.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I agree. But I think the problem isn't conservatism or liberalism ,it's ultraconservatism and ultraliberalism, which are stubborn and uncooperative ideologies. We need a certain level of conservatism--imagine a speeding car and the old guy in the backseat who says "woah, maybe we should slow down and look where we're going. We don't even have headlights on". But we also need a certain level of liberalism or we never even drive the car anywhere new.

It's natural for a healthy pull between conservatism and liberalism. Ideally they should clash and then new ideas or policies emerge from the clash. The Hegelian Dialectic. That doesn't really happen with the polarized extremes like we see now.

Yeah, but modern conservatives are more like elementary school kids prone to peeing their pants whenever they're afraid. And I'm getting really tired of the car smelling like piss and them insisting on listening to tantrums on the radio. And they won't even let anyone stop at a gas station to get a damn air freshener, because that's the same to them as handing the keys over to a drunk driver.
 

Obfuscate

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Yeah, but modern conservatives are more like elementary school kids prone to peeing their pants whenever they're afraid. And I'm getting really tired of the car smelling like piss and them insisting on listening to tantrums on the radio. And they won't even let anyone stop at a gas station to get a damn air freshener, because that's the same to them as handing the keys over to a drunk driver.

that is an oddly specific complaint...
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The more ridiculous elements of liberalism also tend to be pretty quiet right now. I suppose that's because they found out that their tactics don't really work on people like Trump and his supporters. I could have told them that.

I suppose in my analogy, they're equivalent to a drunk driver who would rather let a baby drive because they can't figure out how to get a baby out of the driver's seat.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Yeah, but modern conservatives are more like elementary school kids prone to peeing their pants whenever they're afraid. And I'm getting really tired of the car smelling like piss and them insisting on listening to tantrums on the radio. And they won't even let anyone stop at a gas station to get a damn air freshener, because that's the same to them as handing the keys over to a drunk driver.

“But mooommy I wanna listen to Rush!!!”

“Sweet, I’ve been wanting to rock out to some Rush”

“No mommy, not that Rush. I want the angry fat man”
 

Red Herring

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My American guestparents (very religious lutheran family with a military tradition, socially conservative and anti-Trump) just posted a corny picture of Santa Clause taking a knee in front of Baby Jesus. So suddenly taking a knee is a sign of respect, but when black athletes do it during the national anthem it is suddenly somehow "disrespectful towards veterans"?!?!?!
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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My American guestparents (very religious lutheran family with a military tradition, socially conservative and anti-Trump) just posted a corny picture of Santa Clause taking a knee in front of Baby Jesus. So suddenly taking a knee is a sign of respect, but when black athletes do it during the national anthem it is suddenly somehow "disrespectful towards veterans"?!?!?!

That's the pee smell.
 

The Cat

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My American guestparents (very religious lutheran family with a military tradition, socially conservative and anti-Trump) just posted a corny picture of Santa Clause taking a knee in front of Baby Jesus. So suddenly taking a knee is a sign of respect, but when black athletes do it during the national anthem it is suddenly somehow "disrespectful towards veterans"?!?!?!

As a Veteran, It doesn't bother me, I can even see how its patriotic after a fashion. It's just not in the script. And some people get to fixated on the script. Especially civilians. domesticated humans are easily agitated to furor over things that get off book. IME anyway. The santa thing is cute though. but I like a more Odiny Santaclaus myself
antique-santa-181900430-5bc26d5346e0fb0051bdec4c.jpg


Never have bought into the whole red suit chimny thing I like my santa to walk down the wooded paths like a proper magic elf. And I like Krampus too. I want a buddy comedy holiday move with santa and krampus having to work together to save chritmas.
 

Virtual ghost

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I think that election polls as a concept should be banned. Since everyone is talking mostly about them instead of real political substance.
 
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