The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Jaguar]

It really is just one of many examples of Trump Derangement Syndrome, which has clearly run quite rampant on this forum.

Gaslighting.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Tomb1]

It's interesting to note how a number of the criticisms made against Trump are just as applicable to many other presidents and administrations, and yet for for whatever reason people will focus these criticisms exclusively on Trump. The obvious example would be the whole "babies in cages" debacle, which was recently brought up in the DNC debates. Indeed, the line has become a go-to for many Democrats criticizing the Trump administration's treatment of immigrant children in U.S. custody, and it made for an awkward moment for former Vice President Joe Biden, who was part of the Obama administration that used the same facilities. "We didn't lock people up in cages," Biden said. "We didn't separate families." But of course, a simple fact check shows that neither of these protestations is even remotely accurate.

The policy of criminally prosecuting all illegal border crossings was unique to the Trump administration. That’s what caused the separations that Trump said he “stopped” with this executive order — it wasn’t anything Obama did.

More Family Separation Spin - FactCheck.org

 

[Nicodemus]

Why do you even respond to the propaganda troll?

 

[Maou]

The policy of criminally prosecuting all illegal border crossings was unique to the Trump administration. That’s what caused the separations that Trump said he “stopped” with this executive order — it wasn’t anything Obama did.

More Family Separation Spin - FactCheck.org

They separated them, because children couldn't be tried in court as adults and they put them in facilities for children. It wasn't that there was a law to do the seperation, it's the fact that a law didn't exist to account for minors (hence Trump saying bad laws)and the children fell through the cracks. Since Trump was enforcing the law more thoroughly, the things started happening due to the bad laws or lack there of. As well as a situation where the facilities were never this stressed before. Trump then enacted the executive order to stop the separations (which IMO was stupid. They essentially threw kids into jail with their parents, instead of keeping them in facilities far more comfortable. ). Obama was dealing with this situation too, but never passed a law to fix it. As far as I know, the facilities used by Obama were of worse quality, than the ones used by Trump. Many of the photos they used to smear Trump was taken when Obama was in office.

Also, fact checkers are literally as corrupt as the news, and you shouldn't use them. They are a scam masquerading as authority.

 

[Tellenbach]

If you build the border wall, there'll be less family separations; problem solved.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Robin Stern re-released her book The Gaslight Effect in 2018. (When it was originally published (2007), "gaslighting" was still a relatively unknown term - so she's largely responsible for how it's used today). In this new edition she actually includes recent examples. They are germane to this thread.

An incident from March 2016, dramatically illustrates the profound power of gaslighting - and its pervasiveness in our culture. Then candidate Donald Trump's campaign manager Corey Lewandowski was accused of yanking the arm of Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields as she approached Trump with a question. The incident was witnessed by Washington Post reporter Ben Terris and later confirmed by video released by local police, who eventually charged Lewandowski with battery. Terris reported on the incident, but the story leaked on Twitter before his story was published.

Immediately, the Trump campaign insisted that the incident never happened, that Fields was "delusional," that other film disproved the story. This was classic gaslighting: both Fields, to whom the incident happened, and Terris, who had witnessed it at close range and commiserated with Fields immediately after, began to doubt their own reality.

"When I spoke with Fields last week," wrote Terris in November 2016, "she told me that at the time she even began questioning her own account, despite having the bruises to prove it." Terris confessed that he, too, began to doubt what he had seen. His Washington Post account of the incident and its aftermath was entitled "The Trump campaign's war on reality made me question what I saw; How an incident in March predicted months and months of gaslighting."
​

Also:

In March [of 2016], comedian and HBO host John Oliver claimed that Donald Trump had gaslighted him. At first glance, the story seemed simple enough. Donald Trump announced that he had refused an invitation to appear on Oliver's program. "John Oliver had his people call me to ask me to be on his very boring and low rated show," Trump tweeted. "I said, 'NO THANKS' Waste of time and energy!"

But here's the twist: Oliver never made that invitation. He had no interest in having Trump as a guest on his show. Why would he have invited him?

When Oliver tried to set the record straight, Trump raised the stakes. On a radio interview, he insisted that he'd been asked not just once but four or five times.

Now, at this point, you'd think that Oliver would shrug, incorporate the tweet into his opening monologue, and maybe share a laugh about it with his staff. Instead, Oliver admitted, he actually began to question his own reality. Trump seemed so sure of his own version of events. Maybe Oliver had invited him.

"It was genuinely destabilizing to be on the receiving end of a lie that confident," Oliver said during his show. "I even checked to make sure that no one had even accidentally invited him, and of course, they hadn't."

​

Regardless of how much credit a person gives John Oliver - because the latter incident does rely on a bit of 'he said, she said' - when incidents of this nature add up (and Trump is caught crying wolf over and over, and it's proven repeatedly that there is no wolf - like in the first incident described, there's footage proving something happened that they claimed was the woman's "delusion"), there's a point where it becomes irrational to keep believing him. He's got a very clear track record of pathological lying. And that track record of telling boldfaced lies is real. Off the top of my head: windmill cancer, Green New Deal means you can't watch TV when there's no wind, the Bowling Green massacre, "total exoneration" by the Mueller Report, the Russia story is a witch hunt (several people were indicted, Russian interference DID happen, Mueller has said it's still "happening as we speak") - and that's barely a dent.

This is unprecedented. No president (along with his administration) has done this before, and Trump does it regularly. No amount of trying to dismiss outrage at this behavior as simply <current president> Derangement Syndrome changes the fact that there's nothing routine about a president lying and gaslighting on Trump's level. It happens daily. Sometimes hourly. While I don't think it's done by most supporters with malicious intent (I think it's more the product of being gaslighted themselves), attempting to dismiss his behavior as somehow normal/acceptable lowers the bar to an unacceptable and dangerous level.

Why do you even respond to the propaganda troll?

Why do you suppose people become propaganda trolls? That's definitely what it looks like to me too, and it makes me wonder what they get out of it.

 

[Tellenbach]

He's got a very clear track record of pathological lying. And that track record of telling boldfaced lies is real.

It's the same with Obama and the same with Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton, but the media doesn't hound Hillary when she says she landed under sniper fire or that she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary.

 

[Maou]

Why do you suppose people become propaganda trolls? That's definitely what it looks like to me too, and it makes me wonder what they get out of it.

It is one thing to think they are uninformed, uneducated etc. But calling people trolls implies they are only giving certain opinions to piss people off, and don't actually believe what they are saying. Why is it so difficult to accept that maybe they believe what they say? Isn't it intellectual arrogance to be so convinced that one's position is the only right one, and those who disagree have to be trolls?

 

[The Cat]

I dont know is it?

 

[Lark]

One thing I do think it interesting, as I've said before, is that the Trump administration has avoided wars and Trump has actually pointed it out and talked about it.

This could change now with the present Iranian shenanigans and Saudi Arabia but it definitely was something different to other administrations, either democrat or republican.

 

[Maou]

One thing I do think it interesting, as I've said before, is that the Trump administration has avoided wars and Trump has actually pointed it out and talked about it.

This could change now with the present Iranian shenanigans and Saudi Arabia but it definitely was something different to other administrations, either democrat or republican.

I am sure USA will back Saudi Arabia, because we are allies. If Iran tries anything though, then it might start a war. Then USA can't afford to not take action. Because a lot of the oil used by western countries comes from SdA. In the middle of a trade war, its essential to Trump's plan. So I wouldn't be suprised if they fucked up Iran if they do something dumb. Trump wouldn't half ass it like Bush or Obama. But its not likely.

Also notice how thanks to Trump, usa economy wasn't affected due to energy independence. But Europe's economy was.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

I am sure USA will back Saudi Arabia, because we are allies. If Iran tries anything though, then it might start a war. Then USA can't afford to not take action. Because a lot of the oil used by western countries comes from SdA. In the middle of a trade war, its essential to Trump's plan. So I wouldn't be suprised if they fucked up Iran if they do something dumb. Trump wouldn't half ass it like Bush or Obama. But its not likely.

lol

 

[Jaguar]

I can see us fucking up Iran. Now, put down the bong.

 

[The Cat]

I can see us fucking up Iran. Now, put down the bong.

never.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Donald Trump Randomly Tweets 'Stable Genius' Boast And People Are Puzzled | HuffPost

 

[The Cat]

But does he like Fish sticks?

 

[Coriolis]

I am sure USA will back Saudi Arabia, because we are allies. If Iran tries anything though, then it might start a war. Then USA can't afford to not take action. Because a lot of the oil used by western countries comes from SdA. In the middle of a trade war, its essential to Trump's plan. So I wouldn't be suprised if they fucked up Iran if they do something dumb. Trump wouldn't half ass it like Bush or Obama. But its not likely.

Also notice how thanks to Trump, usa economy wasn't affected due to energy independence. But Europe's economy was.

If Trump were consistent he would make sure we are not dependent on energy sources outside our borders. In any case, based on its history and culture, Iran would make a much better long term ally in the region than Saudi Arabia. We have just been playing our cards wrong there since backing the Shah decades ago.

 

[JAVO]

I am sure USA will back Saudi Arabia, because we are allies. If Iran tries anything though, then it might start a war. Then USA can't afford to not take action. Because a lot of the oil used by western countries comes from SdA. In the middle of a trade war, its essential to Trump's plan. So I wouldn't be suprised if they fucked up Iran if they do something dumb. Trump wouldn't half ass it like Bush or Obama. But its not likely.

He called off the last attack on Iran in the final minutes because he suddenly realized many people would die.

(supposedly, of course )