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The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

ceecee

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They can't declare a mechanical failure within minutes after the plane crashing unless they already know exactly what that mechanical failure was, i.e. air defense "mechanical failure". If you saw the video of the alleged doomed plane you will see it was burning like a match on the way down. Those things don't usually happen to modern planes.

It was a Boeing 737. These things do happen to those planes. And if you automatically think Iran shot down this plane, that's also a problem. The US has plenty of experience with shooing down passenger planes in this part of the world.
 

ceecee

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Trump is going to come over the top with something ridiculous. Maybe. Depends on if this rocket attack was a deliberately casualty free warning shot, or if they're as weak and incompetent as we have been lead to believe.

Whos for slashing the defense budget now?

Absolutely. Last I checked we (This country, not a US military interest, voluntarily working in Iraq) haven't been invaded or attacked. Let me know when that happens. I do like how you keep saying "led to believe" like there is some doubt the US govt. isn't totally full of shit and this admin isn't completely incompetent.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Trump is going to come over the top with something ridiculous. Maybe. Depends on if this rocket attack was a deliberately casualty free warning shot, or if they're as weak and incompetent as we have been lead to believe.

Whos for slashing the defense budget now?

Let's be real.

It's not a defense budget, it's an offense budget. If we focused our military on actually defending our borders, the mainland USA, and the handful of territories overseas, rather than on expensive, decades long expeditions to the middle east, then we wouldn't need such a huge defense budget.
 

Red Herring

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It was a Boeing 737. These things do happen to those planes. And if you automatically think Iran shot down this plane, that's also a problem. The US has plenty of experience with shooing down passenger planes in this part of the world.

I still don't understand what interest Iran could possibly have in killing Iranian(its own people!) and Ukrainian civilians on Iranian soil?????

At this point I would say:
Most likely: technical defect
possible but not very likely: terrorist attack
unlikely: American attack
even less likely: Iranian attack
 

anticlimatic

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Let's be real. It's not a defense budget, it's an offense budget. If we focused our military on actually defending our borders, the mainland USA, and the handful of territories overseas, rather than on expensive, decades long expeditions to the middle east, then we wouldn't need such a huge defense budget.
I loved turtleing back when I played WC3. It was a fun strategy to employ against my "keep the battles happening in the enemy's base" buddy. Even if I did lose most rounds in the long run...
 

Edgar

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It was a Boeing 737. These things do happen to those planes. And if you automatically think Iran shot down this plane, that's also a problem. The US has plenty of experience with shooing down passenger planes in this part of the world.

It wasn't 737 MAX if that's what you are referring to, it was 737-800 version, which has the best safety record for those series.

Also I'm not sure what you are insinuating with your last sentence. Are you implying that the US has missiles stationed inside Tehran? Because the plane went down shortly after takeoff.
 

ceecee

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I still don't understand what interest Iran could possibly have in killing Iranian(its own people!) and Ukrainian civilians on Iranian soil?????

At this point I would say:
Most likely: technical defect
possible but not very likely: terrorist attack
unlikely: American attack
even less likely: Iranian attack

I agree. The Ukraine element is the only thing that makes this suspicious at all, otherwise I'm thinking mechanical failure.
 

ceecee

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It wasn't 737 MAX if that's what you are referring to, it was 737-800 version, which has the best safety record for those series.

Also I'm not sure what you are insinuating with your last sentence. Are you implying that the US has missiles stationed inside Tehran? Because the plane went down shortly after takeoff.

lol No I don't think the US has missiles in Iran.

The Vincennes’ downing of Iran Air Flight 655: The United States tried to cover up its own destruction of a passenger plane.
 

anticlimatic

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Good speech this morning by the president. Looks like he's taking the opportunity to let the Iranians save face (not overstating how ineffectual last nights attack was, or going after them with harsh rhetoric).

Looks like a big win for Trump here.
 

Jaguar

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Only the ignorant wouldn't recognize the flagrant lies in that video starting at 4:17. That 1.8 billion he mentioned was a debt owed to Iran and it's been explained over and over and over and over. No matter how many times you try to teach that child the facts, he doesn't want to use them because he'd rather push a false narrative.


AP FACT CHECK: Trump revisits old fictions about Iran money

Here’s what the president doesn’t tell you:

—The $1.8 (actually $1.7 billion) was a debt owed to Iran, which bought military equipment from the U.S. that it never received because relations ruptured when the shah was overthrown in 1979.

—The debt was in international arbitration for years. As part of that, Iran paid settlements of more than $2.5 billion to U.S. citizens and businesses.

—$400 million, representing the principal and held in a U.S. government trust fund, was paid in cash and flown to Tehran on a cargo plane, which gave rise to Trump’s dramatic accounts of money stuffed in barrels or boxes and delivered in the dead of night.

—The remaining $1.3 billion, representing interest accrued over nearly 40 years, was paid separately. In order not to violate U.S. regulations barring direct U.S. dollar transfers to Iranian banks, the money was remitted to Iran in late January and early February 2016 in foreign hard currency from the central banks of the Netherlands and of Switzerland, according to the Congressional Research Service .



And that article is from a year ago - once Trump starts creating fake facts, he just keeps recycling them.
 

Maou

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Good speech this morning by the president. Looks like he's taking the opportunity to let the Iranians save face (not overstating how ineffectual last nights attack was, or going after them with harsh rhetoric).

Looks like a big win for Trump here.

Trump has openly stated his policy is when they first attack, tell them off. When they attack again. Hit them back twice as hard. I assume Trump will keep his word if they attack again. Hopefully, he keeps civilians out of it.

I read the whole thing about him threatening "civilians and cultural sites" was a severe overstatement. Iran threatened 29 targets, and Trump threatened 52, and only one has cultural significance.

Well gee, to complete immunity in war through the Geneva conventions is to declare all your militsry sites, "cultural" lol. Thoses things are a joke, and if it came to actual war. No one is gonna abide by them, unless the two countries are already pretty similar.
 

Jaguar

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The Geneva Convention of 1949 reads: “it is prohibited: (a) to commit any acts of hostility directed against the historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples; (b) to use such objects in support of the military effort; (c) to make such objects the object of reprisals."

Trump has threatened to commit all three.

Come on Donnie, hit one. Do it. I dare you. I know what will happen if you do. :yays:

But seriously, I must say, some of these are beautiful:

Iran cultural sites: 22 images of UNESCO heritage sites
 

anticlimatic

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The Geneva Convention of 1949 reads: "it is prohibited: (a) to commit any acts of hostility directed against the historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples; (b) to use such objects in support of the military effort; (c) to make such objects the object of reprisals." Trump has threatened to commit all three. Come on Donnie, hit one. Do it. I dare you. I know what will happen if you do. :yays: But seriously, I must say, some of these are beautiful: Iran cultural sites: 22 images of UNESCO heritage sites
You should go visit. Tomorrow.
 

Virtual ghost

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Ok, that was obviously a warning shot. However I don't see anywhere how the whole thing about "booting" US from Iraq has ended when it comes to the government of Iraq.
 

Maou

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The Geneva Convention of 1949 reads: “it is prohibited: (a) to commit any acts of hostility directed against the historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples; (b) to use such objects in support of the military effort; (c) to make such objects the object of reprisals."

Trump has threatened to commit all three.

Come on Donnie, hit one. Do it. I dare you. I know what will happen if you do. :yays:

But seriously, I must say, some of these are beautiful:

Iran cultural sites: 22 images of UNESCO heritage sites

Tell that to the muslim extremists who specifically target cultural and religious sites, because they believe in ideological superiority. Or those who religions are warlike. They are not going to follow these rules. Like I said, it's stupid if you apply it to non-similar cultures. It operates under the assumption that everyone holds the same morality, and means nothing unless both sides agree to it. Iran exists in a region with consistant violations against the Geneva convention. I do not think they will honor it.
 

Edgar

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How does the plane getting accidentally shot down in the Persian Gulf by a US missile also implies that a US missile might have shot down the plane in Tehran? The US has ships with anti air missiles in the Persian Gulf, they don't have US anti air missiles in Tehran. Unless you think the US singled out a random plane inside the Iranian territory for just shits and giggles?
 

ceecee

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How does the plane getting accidentally shot down in the Persian Gulf by a US missile also implies that a US missile might have shot down the plane in Tehran? The US has ships with anti air missiles in the Persian Gulf, they don't have US anti air missiles in Tehran. Unless you think the US singled out a random plane inside the Iranian territory for just shits and giggles?

I have no idea, you are the one drawing these conclusions, not me.
 

Jaguar

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Rand Paul, Mike Lee rip administration over 'insulting and demeaning' Iran briefing

GOP Sens. Mike Lee (Utah) and Rand Paul (Ky.) ripped the administration over a closed-door briefing on Iran on Wednesday, announcing they will now support a resolution reining in President Trump's military powers. Lee, speaking to reporters after a roughly hour-long closed-door meeting with administration officials, characterized it as "the worst briefing I've seen, at least on a military issue.”

"I see no way in the world you could logically argue that an authorization to have war with Saddam Hussein has anything to with having war with people currently in Iraq," Paul told reporters.
He added that using the 2002 authorization to justify the strike that killed Qassem Soleimani in Baghdad was "absurd" and an "insult."

"Let's have the debate, and let's have some senators stand up," Paul said.

Rand Paul, Mike Lee rip administration over 'insulting and demeaning' Iran briefing | TheHill


VIDEO:
GOP Sen. Lee: White House gave incoherent, troubling answers at classified Iran briefing | On Air Videos | Fox News
 
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