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The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

Lark

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In context, many things like this are essential for survival. For example, CEO positions is full of sociopaths and psychopaths. Because the ruthlessness allows them to make difficult desicions easier for the good of lets say, the nation.

Bullying is the same. You have to "bully" nations, to get what you want. Its a very complex game of negotiations, public image influence, and respect.

Narcissism is Trump's projected character. He does many things outside of camera view, that completely disproves this.

Paranoia? Like what? I've not seen an example of actual paranoia in Trump, only caution. Which is more than I can say for the delusional EU who has zero sense of caution. Both delusions and paranoia are easy to project, based on uncertainty for everyone who has a disagreement.

Lying is also essential in politics, so you don't play with an open hand. Once again, mind games. Everyone does it. This very thread is the product of political mind games, and thought influence.

Promiscuity? His body, his choice. If everyone else can say being promiscuous is fine, why can't Trump be that way too? Double standard.

Manipulation, same as above. Its essential in politics.

Yeah, I've read the Prince and Tacitus, I know the road to cyncism from skepticism well.

I do not believe they are essential for survival, in fact, I think the perpetuation of that view as a commonplace can only result in self-sabotage and cultural breakdown, if not in the sort term then definitely in the longer term. In the sort of unlawful/lawless, chaotic/disorderly any kind of business is impossible, the plain honest interaction is not possible either.

The norms that some adopt in a crisis are not the rule but the exception and that's as it should be.

- - - Updated - - -

Conversely, I could ask what the basis is of judging these attributes negatively.

Why would you do that?
 

SearchingforPeace

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In context, many things like this are essential for survival. For example, CEO positions is full of sociopaths and psychopaths. Because the ruthlessness allows them to make difficult desicions easier for the good of lets say, the nation.

Bullying is the same. You have to "bully" nations, to get what you want. Its a very complex game of negotiations, public image influence, and respect.

Narcissism is Trump's projected character. He does many things outside of camera view, that completely disproves this.

Paranoia? Like what? I've not seen an example of actual paranoia in Trump, only caution. Which is more than I can say for the delusional EU who has zero sense of caution. Both delusions and paranoia are easy to project, based on uncertainty for everyone who has a disagreement.

Lying is also essential in politics, so you don't play with an open hand. Once again, mind games. Everyone does it. This very thread is the product of political mind games, and thought influence.

Promiscuity? His body, his choice. If everyone else can say being promiscuous is fine, why can't Trump be that way too? Double standard.

Manipulation, same as above. Its essential in politics.

It is as if some people are so naive and innocent to believe all their favored leaders are kind and gentle creatures that are Buddha or Christ reincarnated.....

There are no saints in politics or business. As such, moralizing about ruthless egomaniacs who hold office is foolish.

"Oh, Trump is such a bully, he is so heartless".....lol, which successful politician really isn't?
 

Red Herring

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Would it be fair then to summarize the Trump supporters' case as "Ethics is overrated"?
 

Maou

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Would it be fair then to summarize the Trump supporters' case as "Ethics is overrated"?

More like, we understand the nature of power in reality, and how things evolved to create the concept of power. If you think power came from being ethical, or getting along. You forget your ancestors. Peace is built on the backs of bloodshed, deceit, and betrayal. Only the people of today have the luxury to complain about "orange man bad", because they only like to look at the nice things about reality, and ignoring the bitter harsh truths of what it means to hold power.
 

highlander

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This is why the thousands of mental health practitioners have been banging the drum since prior to the 2016 General Election. A malignant narcissist shouldn't be the most powerful man in the world.

This is I think the essential point.

It is as if some people are so naive and innocent to believe all their favored leaders are kind and gentle creatures that are Buddha or Christ reincarnated.....

There are no saints in politics or business. As such, moralizing about ruthless egomaniacs who hold office is foolish.

"Oh, Trump is such a bully, he is so heartless".....lol, which successful politician really isn't?

It's a matter of degree.

New Economy; Like Narcissus, executives are smitten, and undone, by their own images. - The New York Times

Looking at this person


Do you see how there are similarities? Are they good?

Is Elizabeth Holmes A Sociopath, Narcissist, Or Both?
 

Deprecator

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Do you have any radar for "bad guys"?
If you choose to believe only what you can clearly see in front of you, playing the numbers game, then I would expect you to get fucked over or hurt quite often.
I mention numeric fallacies and partisan quacks who are violating their own ethical guidelines, and you respond by inquiring about my 'bad boy radar'? That, without going into specifics or bothering to explain why you'd think so, you want to imply that my post is somehow indicative of a person who lacks intuition/ judgement of character, and as such, you'd expect me to be needlessly prone to negative personal experiences with others?

Regardless of whether or not I got that all right, I'll still say that A) for your sake I hope you're not projecting here, and B) even the gullible, the naive and the people with poor judge of characters don't deserve to be victim blamed.
 

SearchingforPeace

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This is I think the essential point.



It's a matter of degree.

New Economy; Like Narcissus, executives are smitten, and undone, by their own images. - The New York Times

Looking at this person


Do you see how there are similarities? Are they good?

Is Elizabeth Holmes A Sociopath, Narcissist, Or Both?

Elizabeth Holmes was a fraud from the get go and the daughter of a fraudster. She was given billions in an effort to promote the idea of a female Silicon Valley genius CEO. Smart people fell for her lies.

And....

She really isn't that different from much of Silicon Valley and its many frauds

Again, oppose Trump on actions and polices, if you want. Everything else is just partisan BS and confirmation bias.
 

Falcarius

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Falcarius does not care what the personality flaws of the politicians are. He votes for who he think has the best policy and he thinks is the best leader. One could be totally an obnoxious person or dinosaur and have a personality disorder and still be the best leader. However annoying Trump is and he comes across as extremely annoying to be fair, nobody could ague he is not doing what he campaigned to do. If Falcarius was American he would be much more interested in the clams about rape and Trump-Russia collusion and if that really is a wig aligation than if Trump is a narcissist, paranoid, and sociopath.

Seriously, Falcarius is much more interested in proper problems regarding the presidency like taming lobbing, limiting political donations, and sorting out media regulation. Making presidents undergoing psychological testing is not exactly high on his priorities in terms of reform.
 

Redbone

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The book goes into some details on this. People who are tyrants and have these kinds of personalities do arise to positions of power. It has happened many times in history. He tapped into the collective discontent in the country within certain groups and tells them what they want to hear. The interesting thing is there are a couple of chapters written by Jungian psychologists and one core theme that emerges is that he is a reflection of the US society and the ills that affect it - the collective shadow if you will. We bear a narcissistic wound and he represents the success that we can aspire to - or something like that.

It's how he did the above that has pretty much convinced me of him having NPD. He never seemed like he truly wanted to be president but it was hard for him to give up the steady stream of narcissistic supply he was receiving those groups. And it kept going from there. He's still relying on it now. It makes me wonder if he will become more unstable as the pool of supply dries up.
 

highlander

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Elizabeth Holmes was a fraud from the get go and the daughter of a fraudster. She was given billions in an effort to promote the idea of a female Silicon Valley genius CEO. Smart people fell for her lies.

And....

She really isn't that different from much of Silicon Valley and its many frauds

Again, oppose Trump on actions and polices, if you want. Everything else is just partisan BS and confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias is the "the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories".

The thing is, I'm actually pretty open about things. I have read that 88% of republicans support him. I voted a straight republican ticket last election - except for president - because I didn't think he was qualified and I thought Hilary was - though I didn't like her policies. I like the fact that he didn't increase my taxes and don't disagree with some of his policies. That's not the issue at hand here. It's that he's a danger to the country, to the world and to our society and this may have long lasting effects.

As I said, I have known only one person who clearly was NPD and that person was the most toxic person I've ever interacted with. It took me a couple of years to figure out what was going on because she was very intelligent, quite charming and quite knowledgeable. At first, I was quite impressed with her. That person wasn't in a sufficient position of influence or power to really cause a long term problem but I can't even imagine someone like that being president of the United States.

I like the idea of someone who fights for the country, confronts the tyrants in others, stops taking on all the world's ills (because we can't afford it), sticks up for US citizens and their right to have a job/career, confronts illegal immigration, etc. The question is whether that idea matches the reality.

Can you at least see some merit to this point of view - or a potential recognition that it might be a risk that an excessive narcissist with no empathy, who is impulsive, quick to anger and prone to lashing out, may be a danger to the country? I mean everything is all about him. Doesn't it worry you at all?
 

highlander

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Falcarius does not care what the personality flaws of the politicians are. He votes for who he think has the best policy and he thinks is the best leader. One could be totally an obnoxious person or dinosaur and have a personality disorder and still be the best leader. However annoying Trump is and he comes across as extremely annoying to be fair, nobody could ague he is not doing what he campaigned to do. If Falcarius was American he would be much more interested in the clams about rape and Trump-Russia collusion and if that really is a wig aligation than if Trump is a narcissist, paranoid, and sociopath.

Seriously, Falcarius is much more interested in proper problems regarding the presidency like taming lobbing, limiting political donations, and sorting out media regulation. Making presidents undergoing psychological testing is not exactly high on his priorities in terms of reform.

Status Of President Trump's Campaign Promises, 2 Years Later : NPR

I haven't compared statistics but it seems like he has done as much or more to fulfill campaign promises than most presidents have done.
 

The Cat

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Show me a mirror, I'll show you a madman. Show me a mirror in a palace and I'll show you a monster.
 

Tater

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Years ago, the appeal of Trump was that he was an outsider.

Now, the appeal is that he is shit (???) just like every other politician.

My how the goalposts have shifted.
 

Peter Deadpan

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I mention numeric fallacies and partisan quacks who are violating their own ethical guidelines, and you respond by inquiring about my 'bad boy radar'? That, without going into specifics or bothering to explain why you'd think so, you want to imply that my post is somehow indicative of a person who lacks intuition/ judgement of character, and as such, you'd expect me to be needlessly prone to negative personal experiences with others?

Regardless of whether or not I got that all right, I'll still say that A) for your sake I hope you're not projecting here, and B) even the gullible, the naive and the people with poor judge of characters don't deserve to be victim blamed.

Ironic, considering you just went from 0-60, injecting all sorts of shit I didn't say.

Some questions are just for provoking thought or perspective and aren't personal attacks.
 

Tater

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Being critical of someone's policies or behavior =/= partisanship. I was a registered Republican while calling Reagan an incompetent jackass when his administration's initial response to HIV was indifference and inaction.

You cared about HIV?

That must make you a tree-hugging, tumblr posting, rose-glass wearing, soy-chugging, Marx-obsessed, libtarded, Commie scum.

Time to deport you.
 

Deprecator

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Ironic, considering you just went from 0-60, injecting all sorts of shit I didn't say. Some questions are just for provoking thought or perspective and aren't personal attacks.
I really wasn't sure, and had even tried asking another what your comment could have meant. Still, "do you have any radar for "bad guys" and "I would expect you to get fucked over or hurt quite often", aren't exactly made up quotes that you didn't say, and even now I still don't know what perspective or thought you were trying to provoke.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Confirmation bias is the "the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories".

The thing is, I'm actually pretty open about things. I have read that 88% of republicans support him. I voted a straight republican ticket last election - except for president - because I didn't think he was qualified and I thought Hilary was - though I didn't like her policies. I like the fact that he didn't increase my taxes and don't disagree with some of his policies. That's not the issue at hand here. It's that he's a danger to the country, to the world and to our society and this may have long lasting effects.

As I said, I have known only one person who clearly was NPD and that person was the most toxic person I've ever interacted with. It took me a couple of years to figure out what was going on because she was very intelligent, quite charming and quite knowledgeable. At first, I was quite impressed with her. That person wasn't in a sufficient position of influence or power to really cause a long term problem but I can't even imagine someone like that being president of the United States.

I like the idea of someone who fights for the country, confronts the tyrants in others, stops taking on all the world's ills (because we can't afford it), sticks up for US citizens and their right to have a job/career, confronts illegal immigration, etc. The question is whether that idea matches the reality.

Can you at least see some merit to this point of view - or a potential recognition that it might be a risk that an excessive narcissist with no empathy, who is impulsive, quick to anger and prone to lashing out, may be a danger to the country? I mean everything is all about him. Doesn't it worry you at all?

Actually, no.

I find Trump hating Republicans to be an interesting group. If one goes down a list of actual Trump actions, most would be happy: tax cuts, deregulation, judges, etc.

Where does he deviate policywise from the last 30 years of Republicanism?

1. He rejects globalism. This is actually the traditional Republican position, just changed since Bush 41 and his NWO.
2. He is an economic nationalist. Likewise a traditional Republican position.
3. He opposes illegal immigration and is building the wall. Traditional Republican position.
4. He is trying to end the endless wars in the Middle East.
5. He rejects neoliberalism and neoconservativism.

None of those issues are core Republican issues, but recent things.

Trump is, effectively, the first president to act as if the USA is the only superpower after the Cold War. And as much as some claim he is only about Trump, his language is actually inclusive, using much more "we" and "us" than "I", while Obama was a huge fan of "I".

Where I wish he would do something different:

1. Antitrust enforcement
2. National health care
3. Reduce foreign military bases (currently over 800).
4. More bureaucracy reform.
5. Infrastructure spending.
6. Wall Street reform

One of my earliest memories was a breaking news report when I was still in preschool about the Fall of Saigon. Strange to say, but I have studied history and politics and foreign relations ever since. I have multiple degrees in those areas and have taught in one of those fields at a major university. I am in a different profession but still study these areas as hobbies.

The most despicable individual who was president was LBJ. Every criticism you make of Trump was likely true of Johnson. Yet the country survived.

In Obama's last year alone, he dropped about 27k bombs on 7 countries. Before that, he directly ordered drone assassinations of US citizens and foreign nationals. His administration spied on journalists and threw some in jail. His staffers spied on Congress and lied to Congress. He used the IRS against Tea Party groups and others. And that is all besides the spying on the Trump campaign and pushing a fake Russian collusion narrative. And much more.

Trump is unique for challenging the bipartisan DC establishment. The media is attacking him nonstop, just as much as they supported Obama for 8 years. Consumer confidence is at the highest since before 9/11. Wages are increasing. People moved from part time to full time and to better jobs. Etc.

I was very skeptical of Trump. In 2015 and 2016, I posted a lot of negative articles about him here. I really didn't believe he would follow through. After he was elected, I hoped the Democrats would work with him, as Chuck and Donnie are old friends and I believe there are many things that need to be addressed. Instead they went with Plan B, to cover up their own malfeasance and high crimes.

Trump has far exceeded any reasonable expectations.

I have a friend who is a federal circuit judge. He is a Bushie and hates Trump and will not vote for him. He does really like his policies, however. He just has an irrational hatred and turns from a calm reasoned man to an angry one, almost violently so, when Trump's name is mentioned. I find it interesting.

I argued with plenty who came up with similar lists about Obama. Their hatred of Obama blinded them. I voted for Obama in 2008 and don't regret it one bit. He was the better candidate. I am disappointed he largely wasted his presidency and didn't throw 10k bankers in jail and bombed so many places and screwed up health insurance.

So, looking just as policies actually done, what are your objections to Trump?

Try to stay away from personality and psychological issues. And remember, most every president has been a narcisstic sociopath, so those types of issues are really immaterial when evaluating a presidential candidate.
 
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