The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Maou]

I'm not part of the media, I'm not interested in that sort of partisanship either.

The "my leader right or wrong" thinking is unamerican, its one of the least American things I can think of.

My entire issue with the Left is not what they believe, but the means in which they obtain their beliefs. I could care less about "us vs them". I don't believe in the ends justifying the means. Because action says more about your character, and what to expect from you than anything else. If you emulate the same behaviors the media portrays, such as demonization, belittling your opponents, never giving them the benefit of the doubt, and never calling out your own follies. Then you are exactly like the media.

Journalism is dead, and the media itself is unamerican.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What do you think of Andrew Yang?

I don't know enough about the guy to have a detailed opinion. Plus his is just UBI,UBI,UBI, he doesn't seem to have much other arguments. He is correct about technology replacing workforce but I am not sure how his UBI will work in details. If he goes after version where everything is privatized that will probably quickly eat away the UBI money and even create "deficits". Plus I don't really see him as a person that can really stand in geopolitical issues. Therefore someone else will actually lead that crucial "department".

 

[Yuurei]

I don't know enough about the guy to have a detailed opinion. Plus his is just UBI,UBI,UBI, he doesn't seem to have much other arguments. He is correct about technology replacing workforce but I am not sure how his UBI will work in details. If he goes after version where everything is privatized that will probably quickly eat away the UBI money and even create "deficits". Plus I don't really see him as a person that can really stand in geopolitical issues. Therefore someone else will actually lead that crucial "department".

How is privatized UBI supposed to work? I can only imagine that one would have to belong to this 'private company' and as person living in the U.S country, the only way my little Capitalist-colored brain can fathom this is as an employee.

 

[Nicodemus]

for a while, I didn't like attacking Trump supporters, and instead chose to attack the man himself, his bad behavior, and his hypocritical policies (looking at you, vape ban, coming from the guy who promised he wouldn't enact a lot of regulations). I do think Trump derangement syndrome was a thing, and some people were going to hate him no matter what he did, that some of the criticisms and comparisons to Hitler and such might be just a tad unwarranted or hyperbolic. I thought the opposition should bide their time and choose their criticisms and attacks a little more carefully, let the man dig his own grave (which he's been doing a good job of, so far)...

But the more and more shit comes to light, the harder it is to abide their unwavering loyalty.

I really do think a big part of the initial wave of enthusiasm for this guy came down to "stickin it to the libs" as a big Fuck You, and I think for a lot of those supporters, they're left in the increasingly difficult spot of not wanting to admit the people they so hate may not have been entirely wrong about trump.

What I have found very odd about this initial perspective of yours and so many others is that Trump was not an unknown entity when he became president, when he got the nomination, when he started his campaign, or even when he started The Apprentice. He had been around the block again and again. He was well known to be a conman, a racist, an ignorant egotist, an amoral, self-serving liar. Consequently, opposition to Trump was well warranted even at the beginning of this latest stage of his political career.

 

[Virtual ghost]

How is privatized UBI supposed to work? I can only imagine that one would have to belong to this 'private company' and as person living in the U.S country, the only way my little Capitalist-colored brain can fathom this is as an employee.

I think you didn't get me. What I meant is that you can privatize just about everything the government has and then you give everyone some money every month, so that they can pay the services they need. However this opens the question of how much money you get, the rise in prices ... etc. Therefore in the end you can find yourself in even deeper problems at the end of the day. If you give everyone 1000$ a month that is 320 billion $ every month for everyone in USA. What is about 4 Trillion a year and if I am not mistaken that is about the size of annual federal budget. So where will you get all this money for UBI ? You will undo the government.


The whole UBI thing can go really south if you are not careful. Because once you spend monthly UBI you could be fully on your own in the most literal sense.

 

[Jaguar]

Journalism is dead, and the media itself is unamerican.

No, your post is. Furthermore, those words sound like they came straight out of Trump's mouth.

 

[Nicodemus]

To tell you the truth I just don't see it that way. I think this is possibly a big win for Trump, especially since democrats now look desperate.


1. This just wouldn't pass the senate as it is now, so there is no actual drama here.
2. The democrats only acted when he went after Biden and corruption questions. What means they are the ones that are basically on the defense, since they are "hiding" something.
3. Trump supporters just don't care, they know who the guy is and they prefer him to the establishment. The fact he went so actively after Biden may even increase his support slightly.
4. This will probably place extra spot on Biden and his deals as well. What will cost him support and that is a win for Trump. If anything since it proves that the top democrats are "fishy people".
5. He may even look as a victim at the end of all this and that will have many implications in 2020. Especially since all of this will probably only reinforce stereotypes about the democrats.


I am one of those that don't see much winning in all of this (sorry for party pooping).

I think you are wrong on a couple of counts here:

1. It just might pass the Senate. The evidence detailed in the complaint should be hard to ignore even for Trump loyalists. As I said many times before, it all depends on how 'conservative' media report about it in the next few weeks.
2. That is simply wrong. Nor will this narrative stick given how much more public evidence there now is against Trump. I suspect Biden will actually benefit from the appearance of being wrongly accused by a known liar. People who want to believe Trump lies were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway; people who do not may now revisit Biden with increased sympathy.
3. Many of those people do not care because they are constantly lulled into the belief that what Trump does is good for them, bad for the liberals, in the interest of the American people, etc. When they learn that this episode is not, when he is no longer being protected by and lied for by the 'conservative' media, his supporters will be fed another narrative, and their support may crumble, at least for some of his base.
4. Again, I very much doubt it.
5. The only people who are going to see Trump as a victim here are people who are beyond the reach of reason. They would vote for him if he shot somebody in 5th Ave. In other words, current events are irrelevant to them, but will matter a great deal to those who are undecided or were reluctant to vote for Trump in 2016, that is: to a lot of the people for whose vote political campaigns are run in the frist place.

 

[Maou]

No, your post is.

Quit replying to me if you have a no contact request.

 

[Jaguar]

Quit replying to me if you have a no contact request.

I don't have one.

 

[Nicodemus]

My entire issue with the Left is not what they believe, but the means in which they obtain their beliefs. I could care less about "us vs them". I don't believe in the ends justifying the means. Because action says more about your character, and what to expect from you than anything else. If you emulate the same behaviors the media portrays, such as demonization, belittling your opponents, never giving them the benefit of the doubt, and never calling out your own follies. Then you are exactly like the media.

Journalism is dead, and the media itself is unamerican.

If any of this were true, you would not have supported Trump the way you so conspicuously have.

 

[Maou]

I don't have one.

Did you abolish it? If so then have at thee, but I need a mod to confirm ( [MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION] [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] ). You do know I changed my name a few times correct? I am Tenebris, Exolvuntur, and Yamimaru in the past.

 

[The Cat]

I'll allow it if you're hell bent on pursuing this to it's final sadness. But I dont know if you really want to have at anyone recklessly.

 

[Jaguar]

Did you abolish it?

2-25-19. Coriolis.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think you are wrong on a couple of counts here:

1. It just might pass the Senate. The evidence detailed in the complaint should be hard to ignore even for Trump loyalists. As I said many times before, it all depends on how 'conservative' media report about it in the next few weeks.
2. That is simply wrong. Nor will this narrative stick given how much more public evidence there now is against Trump. I suspect Biden will actually benefit from the appearance of being wrongly accused by a known liar. People who want to believe Trump lies were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway; people who do not may now revisit Biden with increased sympathy.
3. Many of those people do not care because they are constantly lulled into the belief that what Trump does is good for them, bad for the liberals, in the interest of the American people, etc. When they learn that this episode is not, when he is no longer being protected by and lied for by the 'conservative' media, his supporters will be fed another narrative, and their support may crumble, at least for some of his base.
4. Again, I very much doubt it.
5. The only people who are going to see Trump as a victim here are people who are beyond the reach of reason. They would vote for him if he shot somebody in 5th Ave. In other words, current events are irrelevant to them, but will matter a great deal to those who are undecided or were reluctant to vote for Trump in 2016, that is: to a lot of the people for whose vote political campaigns are run in the frist place.

The time will tell which one of us got this right.
What you are implying is perhaps logical but in my book this isn't really logical "game" but a question of values and loyalty. Very good chunk of USA is totally ok with shooting at 5th Avenue if they think that the person deserved it, what we Europeans think about this as a principle doesn't really matter here.

 

[Yuurei]

I think you didn't get me. What I meant is that you can privatize just about everything the government has and then you give everyone some money every month, so that they can pay the services they need. However this opens the question of how much money you get, the rise in prices ... etc. Therefore in the end you can find yourself in even deeper problems at the end of the day. If you give everyone 1000$ a month that is 320 billion $ every month for everyone in USA. What is about 4 Trillion a year and if I am not mistaken that is about the size of annual federal budget. So where will you get all this money for UBI ? You will undo the government.


The whole UBI thing can go really south if you are not careful. Because once you spend monthly UBI you could be fully on your own in the most literal sense.

When you said " If he goes after version where everything is privatized.." I assumed that you were referring to a specific model that he (Yang) had already suggested, and I was curious.

UBI sounds great. It'd really help me out a lot but it'd never work in a Capitalist country. A recent study involving monkeys suggest that it's within our DNA to feel jilted if we receive the same payment as someone we see as doing less work.
There would have to be SOME way to continue 'punishing' those who are seen as contributing less or it'd never fly with the greater population.

I'm not saying I agree with this way of thinking, I really do not, but there is just no way it would ever accepted if it were truly universal...and that is IF we do somehow find the money to cover it.

 

[Maou]

If any of this were true, you would not have supported Trump the way you so conspicuously have.

That implies I believe the bullshit the media says about Trump. I for one, supported him by what characteristics I see in him, and his capabilities, and results. I do not hate Trump's behaviors, but I don't expect 100% goody twoshoes either because it is politics. The very nature of it is dirty and abhorrent. What I see in Trump is someone fighting against all odds to accomplish what he believes will benefit the country. His beliefs frequently align with my own. I also don't believe in asskissing to Democrats like most Republicans do, and neither does Trump. Nor do I think any leader should show weakness to others etc.

Long story short, I think Trump is a troll, and also gets shit done. His actions, while bold and offensive, do not betray his intentions.

 

[The Cat]

Oh sweetie. Really?

 

[Maou]

I'll allow it if you're hell bent on pursuing this to it's final sadness. But I dont know if you really want to have at anyone recklessly.

I just wanted to know if it was okay to communicate with Jaguar.

 

[Jaguar]

lololol.

 

[The Cat]

I just wanted to know if it was okay to communicate with Jaguar.

Good luck. Have fun. I'll remember you fondly.