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Rainforest fire and Brazil's president

anticlimatic

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Fuck Tim Curry's toxic love, and all the other politicians I hate!

Seriously though, millenials. Lets not peter out on outrage for this cause in the coming weeks. This is one we should see through- won't be hard to find allies.

Where does Brazil export its cattle?
 
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I don't know if it is fair for Americans to expect Brazilians to live with all these rainforests instead of developing their nation.
 

ceecee

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I don't know if it is fair for Americans to expect Brazilians to live with all these rainforests instead of developing their nation.

At one point, I would simply think this is sarcasm and move on. That's not really possible anymore.
 
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At one point, I would simply think this is sarcasm and move on. That's not really possible anymore.

So nice of you to add this wonderful intriguing fluff to these threads.....And remember, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
 

Virtual ghost

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They care minuscule amounts about the Amazon on fire but when you tell them Siberia is on fire - blank stares and :shrug: so? These people truly think what occurs globally has absolutely no impact on them at all and even if it does it will do nothing to them. It's astounding.


Yeap, however from what I have seen the primary climate debate is canceled as "unnecessary".



:) Believe me, I know all about the abundance of trash here, the fact that much that gets sent to the recycling facility isn't in fact recyclable and is contaminated and gets sent to the landfill anyway, because a lot of people don't know what they're doing and throw non-recyclables in there or aren't aware that there are a LOT of paper and plastic products that are not recyclable -- it's why I find the 'oh you can recycle!' thing a cop-out (I DO recycle what is recyclable, btw ;)); oh, good, so that justifies us being wasteful? Not to mention the energy, water, waste created to create all of these products in the first place. And you do realize that that cup you think is recyclable isn't in fact recyclable, so the fact that you think it is and that makes it 'ok' to throw a cup away every day because you think it's recyclable is just... :doh: . I wasn't planning on discussing it in this thread but yeah, our waste here is ridiculous.


I know well that plenty of it can't be really recycled. This is exactly why rich countries often export waste into the poor ones.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Amazon Rain Forest Fires: Here’s What’s Really Happening - The New York Times

....
Natural fires in the Amazon are rare, and the majority of these fires were set by farmers preparing Amazon-adjacent farmland for next year’s crops and pasture. Much of the land that is burning was not old-growth rain forest, but land that had already been cleared of trees and set for agricultural use.

....

Stop Sharing Those Viral Photos of the Amazon Burning – Mother Jones

.....

There are very real fires burning in the Amazon and they do deserve more coverage, but there’s a big problem with this viral campaign: Most of the photos claiming to show the fires are fakes

... .

Update, 1:15 p.m. Friday, Aug. 23: Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, included one of the misleading viral photos in a tweet Thursday. It has been retweeted more than 40,000 times and was embedded in a New York Times article about the fire. We learned since originally publishing that the photo was taken by Loren McIntyre, who died in 2003.

....
 

Vendrah

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Well, well, looks like they re-opened the politic part of the forum. Cool.
Well, well, well, am I the only brazilian in the forum? Well, I am brazilian so I got stuff to tell. Where do I start, the info or my feelings? Well, resume of the info then. Actually, this is a long post, just be advised.

The graphic in NY Times in the post right before mine shows a good infographic. Left and right brazilian wings loves manipulating data and spreading distorted news in ways that everything seems confusing, but, well, I had to thank a good you tuber called "pirula" and one news or another for clarification. The thing is, since the governemnt started to watch the whole amazon through sattelites in the end of the last military brazilian dictatorship in 1988, we had 2 big "waves" of deforestation and this very likely going to be the 3rd one (we can say the 3rd one already started). The 1st wave came from a more or less conservative/right governemnt in the middle 90´s. The 2nd wave came from a progressive/leftist government that actually claimed to care. This 3rd wave is come from the extreme right goverment. So, its either the left and the right that destroys the forest in Brazil.

Since there is a lot of data confusion (thanks to the insane manipulation brazil has daily) and confusing statements, all I know is that 20-40% of the Amazon forest is already gone. Thats actually good news, since it is certain that more of the half of the forest is still there/here. It is not irreversible and it is not beyond saving!

What is happening right now is not a full amazon forest apocalipse like some are saying (these exploding news comes from the left manipulation side), Amazon is certainly not going to be entirely burned this year and not in the next 2-3 years even if this rate continues its patterns. However, as I said before, this is the 3rd wave, and if things continue like that for 2 years, and if we have a 4th wave, than the amazon will be gone. If these burning continues for several years, it will be the Amazon end for sure. However, I dont know how many years it would be necessary.

I know I am being confusing a little, but let me try to clear it out with another point of view. Leftist manipulators are cutting the burning data in 5-7 years, so, compared to the last 5-7 years, Amazon burning and deforestation almost double the rate and that is still increasing. However, the right-wing manipulators are opening the data in a 15-20 year rate, and comparing to the middle 00´s 2nd big wave of deforestation, specially in 2003-2006 years, and comparing to that the rate is not much. So, what is actually is happening is that the deforestation and the Amazon issues started being solved thanks to internal efforts and external support in the ending of 2000´s. And from more or less 2009 the deforestation was getting in-control (not perfect but more or less fine), and that held steady until last year. And now we are back to very high deforestation again, but this is the first year.

I dont know if you guys are aware of climate dynamics. The rainy period in brazil is settled in the beggining of the year, its more or less starts in october or november and it ends in june/july. Most of the fires happens and endures in the middle-end of the year, it happens that most deforestation happens on the 2nd semester and not in the 1st one. By dynamics, this should get better in the beggining of 2020.

Now that I hope I clarifided that the Amazon is not completely on fire but things are far from being good (sorry for not being clear, you have to notice that I read news from "its all on fire" to "its a lie, everything is just normal and fine" and I had to try to make sense of it, which is not easy), time to go to the other subject related, the Brazilians president. Since we are on the MBTI forum, it is good to point out that most brazilians, beside left or right, agrees that Bolsonaro is either ESTJ or ESTP, with majority agreeing by him being ESTJ (me included). Maybe Ill post in MBTI around the world later, but it is good to point that the most common type in Brazil is ESTJ (20-25% as far as I remember), following ISTJ (13-18%) and then ENTJ (10-13%). Yeah, no ESFP, ESFP is relatively rare here (I think its 2-4%). If you think that brazilians are that happy type of persons, relaxed and all, think again, because thats what people here want you foreigns to believe (this is not realistic). The brazilian lazyness is unproven on statistics, the brazilians just works in average compared to world, the dynamics here is that there are more days off than world´s average but there are more week-hours than compared to the world. But Brazilian right wing and specially enterpreneurs still spread this idea that the brazilians are lazy, and if we start to think about its these common types that should be doing that spread, so they can make people work more and they complain more about them. I could go on, but, well, back on this specific ESTJ president and the environment.

You know these organizations that protects the enviroment without being related to government? The ones that claims to protect the forest, save the forest, and all that stuff? This is no fake news: Bolsonaro firstly blamed them for firing the amazon. His "logic": "They hate me, they are putting the fires in the forest so they will make my goverment unstable". Well, it makes so much sense that I am going to cry. There is more. When the institute that watches the forest by sattelite (INPE) published the data that alerted, leading it to the public by the governemnt principle of publicity, the president had said that they should first had asked him and his environment minister before doing so. And for that, he fired the INPE directors without even knowing who he was. He fired him just because he released data that was against his government (it is not his first time doing these kind of things, I think this is the 3rd time and he has been in goverment for only 8 months). Wait, wait there is even more. The president actually suports the deforestation in the name of progress, although as I said a week ago to a friend of mine: "This goverment is doing quite a miracle... Exploring the enviroment should lead to more wealth since money is made from the woods, the exploring, etc... They are destroying the enviroment a lot in this governemnt and yet the GDP per capita growth is getting from very slow to zero this year". There was one movement a month or two ago, where the farmers that Bolsonaro supported made a "fire day", where they anonymously started several fires along a road, some claimed that this was actually a tribute to Bolsonaro. No, this is no joke, its real. There is more.. Bolsonaro claims that brazil lacks money to protect, and yet he is blocking external money from coming in. He poses as a nationalist at day... and at night he supports the most powerful minister (Paulo Guedes) to sell brazilian state companies that explores and profits from oil,mining and natural resources, plus government banks, to foreign companies and even states. What actually happens is that Bolsonaro is blocking some european resources in the name of that, when he stated in his campaign that he had plans to explore the Amazon togheter with the US, even stating that the Brazilians cant take care of Amazon but USA and Trump can (and if you elect a politic that is not like Trump and more like, I dont know, Obama?). And he didnt changed his mind, he advanced towards that. Wait, there is still more, last one I promise because this is getting tiring. You know when you do speeding and got a traffic ticket? Well, the name of that is what, fine? Well I stick as fine. The president was got two enviroment fines in the past, and he actually hates the Brazilian environment agency that take care of nature and the native people (by the natives I mean the people who lived here before european arrives the american continent) (IBAMA, thats the name). He would shut off that agency if he could, thats sure. He even tried to merge the Ministry of Enviroment with the Ministry of Agriculture. He put, for IBAMA, a chief that dislikes the native people and is one of these big farmers that just dont care.

Although I already mentioned only the parts related to the enviroment, I think you guys already noticed that Trump is sweet when compared to this guy.

And lastly... 2 weeks after the fires got hard, about a week or two ago, Sao Paulo (that means "Saint Paul" in portuguese), the major brazilian city, and some other citys in the south, had an interesting, although scary, phenomenon. The day turned into night, like in the biblian apocalipse. No kidding, it happened in a day and partially in another day. That was enough to scare brazilians and move even bolsonaro supporters towards enviroment? Of course not! Actually, some religious Bolsonaro supporters thinks that these are end of the times is coming and that now, more than ever, people should be supporting Bolsonaro (Bolsonaro is the Messiah A in my post at the mistyped person thread), and that the relationship from this phenomenon with the forest fires was a lie created by the left wing to take Bolsonaro, the only hope in Brazil, out of the goverment. Well, getting back to sanity, unless in very south, Brazil does not have these winters that makes the day to last 6 or 8 hours, so, in the point of brazilian capital night never arrives before 18:00-18:15 PM, and in Sao Paulo, it doesnt before 17-18 PM. It happened that, at 14-16 PM, it was already some sort of night, with all car lights and building lights on. Dark day. And, to end the post, here are the pictures, and I will post later about my feelings towards this..

View attachment 21607

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And just to add... First comment I saw on a page while gathering these pictures... "É... A fumaça saiu da Amazônia e pensou: vamos direto e parar só sobre SP. É cada uma.." (rapid translation... "Yeah... the smokes got out of the Amazon and thought to themselves: Lets go straight to SP.", SP means São Paulo and I the last phrase is difficult to translate but doesnt change the text much).
 

Vendrah

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Just to take a note, I dont hate Trump, I just dont know about Trump much, all I know is that he acts like a Bolsonaro relative, and Bolsonaro and Trump loves each other... And, well, my message is more towards brazilian left and brazilian right, its different from the US left and right.

Now, I apologize but you guys were mentioned these things about that people here should be doing or not doing, by if it is stupidity or evil, so, well, I do get depressed on this subject and I would like to share a little of my pain with you...

Not only me, but good brazilians are in a terrible disadvantage. Some people just cant do much to be honest. Some people do need to not talk about it for question of surviving. Firing people because of political opinions is not uncommon in Brazil, most Bolsonaro and Guedes supporters will (and some blogs even instructs clearly direct to do so) fire people for their political opinions only. And do you think its easy to get another job (or better, a good boss)? No, its not, and they rather not know your political opinion, because if they do... You are screwed. So, you dont need to have a single doubt: If you fight it in Brazil, someone will screw you up, someone will work restlessly until they screw you up until you learn the lesson: Let evil and stupidity rule!

I am not kidding, I have to stay shut up on my non virtual enviroment and social media, while I have to just tolerate political messages with some guys spreading fakes truths, like "this Amazon fire is a lie created by leftists", or, how they like to call, leftopaths (when the right-wings are the ones most close to being psycopaths if you read their agenda), I just cant say anything otherwise because I just dont have the power to - Ill be chased, people would be going to try to ruin my life and some can, if I say a thing. In the paper, I am free to do what I want to and say what I want to, but what happens if I actually do? Poverty, isolated, ruined.

Lets talk about MBTI because its easier to understand: This country has the "achile heels" Fi as whole (if you dont like cognitive functions think this as a lack of XXFP people). A terrible lack of Fi. Sorry for those Fi lackers on the forum, but when the enviroment lacks Fi, some bad things happen. Ok, not so sorry, because the lack of Fi actually more helps to explain than it is a motive on its own (although I do believe it is). I will post MBTI countries later, but, in Brazil, ISFP and INFP are rare types (1-3% each). And what happens? Well, lots of things. In Brazil, "what is found is not stolen", if someone finds something in the street, even if they could point out the owner, they keep it. Its the owners fault to let it drop by. Brazilian polarized people in politics loves to humiliate each other in the name of their egos, specially the right wing led by Bolsonaro, even if they are just wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong, it doesnt matter. They love feeling superior with their material values, they like to humiliate, and every disgrace that happens in your life, despite being an external crisis or anything else (they have a sort of TJ fake justice as I stated on: https://www.typologycentral.com/for...2-types-positions-morality-2.html#post3151059 in the most trashy and dehumanized possible way). They will even create fake spiritual messages and use or distort religions or spiritual stuff just to support that idea. They want to make you feel guilty to disgraces that they created. Doubt it? If something bad happens to you, its your fault, its because your attitude attracted bad spiritual energy, despite if you were being shot, because you attracted the bullet. Its how they re-write the power of attraction thing, if you win the lottery, its because you attracted good energy. Actually, for the Guedes followers, "tax is theft", and falsing doccuments, bribe and corrupt government agents, just to achieve the goal to not pay the tax in its integrity, is pure self-defense against this theft. Its an fair act! Brazilian right is actually very used in distorting morality in ways like in this example, in ways that is soo much disgusting that makes me want to die. And, worst thing, some of these guys want to be praised for it. Some of them will get their money out in these ways, and them they will want you to adore them, to devote them recognizing how much they fought in their lives to get their stuff (corrupt governemnt agents is just a part of their fight and struggle). Some Brazilians motivational messages starts with:"You are shit!", using this idea as basis, and it evens get popular while the guy "motivating" you use these ideas to say how bad you are and how everything is bad because of you, just to move to the next video/message/post or even lecture talking about his glorious path.

The brazilian lack of Fi ends up in people stealing (I am 24 and I already was robbed 7 times and some people subtracted items for me 2 times), high murders rate (while the brazilian left is just there to weaken police), lots of corrupted individuals, culture that has expressions related to corruption (jumping the line/queue is common, I had to tolerate people doing in times where I used the public transportation system), bad options for presidents and politicians (Bolsonaro is bad, but his counter choice is already being investigated and he has been condemned with a crime related to money laundering), you having to tolerate lots of terrible messages and ideas that are born with terrible intention (spread specially in social media), and its being submissive or die starving. Its horrible.

This is not even one of my worse days or the days where I am on a bad mood because of all of this, and, well, I think I need to stop here to not ruin the topic. Really, because there is nothing I can do here, or for the Amazon forest, sorry you guys. Really sorry..
 

Maou

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I don't know if it is fair for Americans to expect Brazilians to live with all these rainforests instead of developing their nation.

This also bothers me, because I believe in fairness. If Brazil was 80% rainforest, and the world had a giant fucking stick up their ass every time they tried to become 1st world (develop more) they are suddenly atrocious monsters. I would side with Brazil in telling the rest of the world to fuck off. The rest of the world isn't in charge of what they can, or cannot do. Might it fuck up the world"s ecosystem? Sure. But you know what? What did you expect? Global empathy has increased populations. Places need to grow. Eventually we run out of space. Perhaps, if one cared about the world and nature, they'd learn to be stingy, and unsympathetic and let natural selection happen for the greater good.
 

tinker683

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Vendrah,

Thank you for the information, your insight is greatly appreciated.
 

ceecee

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This also bothers me, because I believe in fairness. If Brazil was 80% rainforest, and the world had a giant fucking stick up their ass every time they tried to become 1st world (develop more) they are suddenly atrocious monsters. I would side with Brazil in telling the rest of the world to fuck off. The rest of the world isn't in charge of what they can, or cannot do. Might it fuck up the world"s ecosystem? Sure. But you know what? What did you expect? Global empathy has increased populations. Places need to grow. Eventually we run out of space. Perhaps, if one cared about the world and nature, they'd learn to be stingy, and unsympathetic and let natural selection happen for the greater good.

Have you ever been outside North America in your life?
 

Vendrah

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U.S. loss is Brazil's gain. Somebody needs to fill China's demand.
The US-China trade war has been a boon for Brazil’s soybean farmers. But can they keep up with Chinese demand? | South China Morning Post

As U.S. soybeans sit in silos, Brazilian farmers push to break new ground to satisfy the Chinese market.
Trump's Trade War Linked To Amazon Rainforest Destruction | HuffPost

I know this is weird to diggest, but Bolsonaro shows some respect and consideration for U.S. (the brazilian left even suggests that he wants to sell the Amazon for the US - But only if the US is in a far right government), but that mainly comes because of Trump instead.
 

Maou

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Have you ever been outside North America in your life?

Because you can learn so much about how a country is run, by eating street food and getting the runs over a brief vacation.
 
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