Quit beating around the bush. We were not debating anything BUT the fact Trump created jobs. That's it. We are not comparing it to the Democrats, nor talking about your opinions on economics. All you had to acknowledge Yes, Trump created jobs.
Then your standards for a successful president are abysmally low. The fact that jobs were created while Trump was in office does not require that he was the cause. It is quite possible that his presence limited the number of jobs created, or that any of his challengers - democratic or republican - could have created more jobs.
Correct, everyone can create jobs like that.
Not to mention that good chunk of them probably isn't even providing a living wage. (and therefore those don't really count, since they don't fulfill the basic premise/goal behind job creation)
Exactly, to be meaningful, metrics must measure something consequential.
A "living wage" violates the very concept of a free market, and economics. Its literally nonsense, and people bitching they can't raise s family of 6 on a min wage job.
Now the truth comes out. Aside of any humanitarian motivation, people not earning a living wage are horrible consumers. Somehow "free markets" have not figured that one out.
You can sell this in USA but not to me. Plus this only suggests that minimum wage is too small.
The thing is that there isn't such a thing as truly free market. Either the so called market it is defined more by elected officials for better of for worse or it is defined by those with money in the case it is deregulated. Perhaps before internet and globalization we could perhaps talk about free market but there is no way this can be genuinely free now, especially since other countries aren't afraid to involve their governments into the mix. As a matter of fact I am willing to argue that your whole life from what understand looks as it looks exactly because of "free market". Since the so called free market is exactly what outsourced so many concrete jobs and now you have whole communities in the ruins. Why pay few thousand dollars for a genuine worker when you can just pay a slave in some dictatorship 50$ and place the difference into you pockets ? Plus you push further deregulation so that people don't see any of even that money. This is exactly why all your tax brakes don't provide any meaningful results since they just keep the money away from people. Back in a day when countries were closed economies that meant that if you reduced taxes the difference would go to the economy, however now people with the money can just invest somewhere around the globe where the profits are the highest. Deregulation broke the circles and now you have free fall.
Exactly. Excellent post all round. The best regulation acts to keep the market free by ensuring a level playing field for business. Moneyed interests consistently shoot this down, smearing it as "big government". This ultimately limits competition across the board.
Fortunately not all Americans buy that empty argument.
And it isn't nonsense, modern free market is build on sucking out everything, often regardless of well being of people and environment in which people should live. The very fact that advertisement is everywhere to the point that people are become mentally ill or stressed due to that proves that milking is the bottom line.
But this conversation is fundamentally pointless since I am not buying your whole life philosophy that revolves around money.
Even business leaders are starting to question the notion that the only goal of business is to make a profit. Money is a critical concern of any business, just as of any individual or household, but if that is their/your only concern, that is a myopic and ultimately counterproductive view.
I think labour is worth what it is worth, and no amount of whining about how unfair life is should change that. It isn't a question of equality. It is not the responsibility of employers to keep you alive and well. You work for them, for money, by choice. If you don't like where that sets you, get a better job. Life is also a competition. Just because you try hard, doesn't always mean you make it to the top. This fact will never change about humanity, or nature.
Who determines the worth of labor? Don't say "free markets" becauses we don't have that and perhaps never had. There is a huge gulf between "making it to the top" and meeting your and your family's basic needs. Sure - we all work for our employers by choice, but when the only alternative is unemployment or an even lower paying job, that's not much of a choice. Getting a better job is also prohibitive for many people. Like many other things you have mentioned in this thread, it may work in theory, but not in practice, as demonstrated over generations of economic activity.