Trump 2020

[Maou]

Taxpayer-funded barrier != building a wall and Mexico paying for it






Um, the OP was praising Trump for achieving very good results. Maybe he's not "most people" (which I doubt), but I'm not responding to "most people." I'm responding to him.

Keep your eye on the ball.

I never once thought Trump meant that Mexico would literally pay for the wall for one. Because I never took Trump literally, because he advertises, he doesn't speak literally. Thats how Trump has always sold his ideas. I don't see what's so hard to understand the marketing memetic technique. I read between the lines, and see the real goal, and how to get there. Trump breaks it down to its simplist form, because the simpler the message, the harder it is to corrupt. This makes his messages immune to certain things. I don't know about other Trump supporters, and how they see him. After all, its not like we are exactly the same. I think he is doing a great job, and I also think people misunderstand how and why. Which is why I tried to clarify why people think Trump is successful. Which is exactly on par with OP's post. I also very much agree that the medias narrative is corrupt BS, and has become transparent and biased as fuck.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I never once thought Trump meant that Mexico would literally pay for the wall for one. Because I never took Trump literally, because he advertises, he doesn't speak literally. Thats how Trump has always sold his ideas. I don't see what's so hard to understand the marketing memetic technique. I read between the lines, and see the real goal, and how to get there. Trump breaks it down to its simplist form, because the simpler the message, the harder it is to corrupt. This makes his messages immune to certain things. I don't know about other Trump supporters, and how they see him. After all, its not like we are exactly the same. I think he is doing a great job, and I also think people misunderstand how and why. Which is why I tried to clarify why people think Trump is successful. Which is exactly on par with OP's post. I also very much agree that the medias narrative is corrupt BS, and has become transparent and biased as fuck.

So when he talked about building a wall and having Mexico pay for it, you knew the whole time he was really talking about you and I paying for it? There's no logic in how Mexico is supposed to "metaphorically" pay for the wall. We are paying for that wall, whether by act of Congress or national emergency.

 

[Maou]

So when he talked about building a wall and having Mexico pay for it, you knew the whole time he was really talking about you and I paying for it? There's no logic in how Mexico is supposed to "metaphorically" pay for the wall. We are paying for that wall, whether by act of Congress or national emergency.

Its called increasing the cost of immigration, reducing the flow of money back to Mexico, increasing the fines on illegal immigration, and harsher penalties etc. And I wanted a wall if I paid for it or not. Its dimes compared to the shit Bernie wants me to pay.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Its called increasing the cost of immigration, reducing the flow of money back to Mexico, increasing the fines on illegal immigration, and harsher penalties etc. And I wanted a wall if I paid for it or not. Its dimes compared to the shit Bernie wants me to pay.

That's not Mexico paying for it. Not in any way.

Think of it this way. If he effectively increases the cost of immigration so that less people do indeed immigrate, that still doesn't pay for the wall. You can't fine illegal immigrants who aren't coming here anymore. Either the wall works and people stop immigrating, so there is no increased revenue from fines and harsher penalties, or there is increased revenue from fines and harsher penalties, in which case the wall doesn't work.

I'm not happy paying for it, because I never wanted the damn thing. Thanks for supporting the government stealing from my hard-earned wages.

 

[Deprecator]

I never once thought Trump meant that Mexico would literally pay for the wall for one.

Yeah, apparently Trump supporters were the only people not super confused by rhetoric that included phrases such as "directly or indirectly"; it seems the only people who feel deceived are the ones who didn't vote for him.

Because I never took Trump literally, because he advertises, he doesn't speak literally.

Yeah, I've read that non-native English speakers are more than twice as likely than native English speakers to interpret Trump's rhetoric as either inflammatory or offensive. The theory is that native English speakers are more likely to identify sarcastic commentary, hyperbole, and other forms of non-literal speech, and thus are more likely to find his remarks funny or otherwise more engaging.

For an example, I remember laughing out loud when I heard Trump say: "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." Of course, critics found this comment so triggering that it was literally cited as even more "evidence" of a debunked conspiracy theory. With headlines like, "Trump Invited the Russians to Hack Clinton. Were They Listening?", I really can't blame Trump for repeatedly lambasting these failing news agencies as fake.

 

[Maou]

That's not Mexico paying for it. Not in any way.

Think of it this way. If he effectively increases the cost of immigration so that less people do indeed immigrate, that still doesn't pay for the wall. You can't fine illegal immigrants who aren't coming here anymore. Either the wall works and people stop immigrating, so there is no increased revenue from fines and harsher penalties, or there is increased revenue from fines and harsher penalties, in which case the wall doesn't work.

I'm not happy paying for it, because I never wanted the damn thing. Thanks for supporting the government stealing from my hard-earned wages.

Pretty ironic from someone who wants to elect Bernie. You think I want to pay for "free shit", because I don't.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm not for a wall. Probably because I have been to places like Israel and the southern border in the US and I see what a paranoid nation is capable of.

Strangely enough I hear little from the GOP on the thousands of unguarded miles, wide the fuck open border to the north. Is that because there is no security threat (lol to anyone that thinks that) or that it's mostly white Christian, folks on the other side? Dunno man.

Didn't you hear? He's going to hold a press conference soon at Trump tower to announce the big theme of his 2020 run: a wall on the Canadian Border. Expect a lot of strong rhetoric and fear mongering about burly lumberjacks crossing the border with their sharp, double-bladed axes and cheap Canadian beer. Anti-hockey sentiment will be a real problem once he starts stirring up his base. Discrimination against bearded hipsters in flannel shirts will rise.

 

[Maou]

Didn't you hear? He's going to hold a press conference soon at Trump tower to announce the big theme of his 2020 run: a wall on the Canadian Border. Expect a lot of strong rhetoric and fear mongering about burly lumberjacks crossing the border with their sharp, double-bladed axes and cheap Canadian beer. Anti-hockey sentiment will be a real problem once he starts stirring up his base.

That would be hilarious.

 

[Jaguar]

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "Mexico will pay for the wall!"

Mexico will pay for the wall!
3:31 AM - 1 Sep 2016

My favorite response:

Why didn't you say that when you were in Mexico, chickenshit?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Pretty ironic from someone who wants to elect Bernie. You think I want to pay for "free shit", because I don't.

Why not, if I have to pay for your dumb barrier? If you're going to steal from me, I'll be happy to steal from you.

 

[Maou]

Why not, if I have to pay for your dumb barrier?

15 trillion dollars is a whole lot more than 50 billion. You see the thing about the government, is that it enacts laws that affect everyone. It benefits some, fucks over others. There is no one sized approach. I see the government only capable of being 33% effective, as opposed to private businesses which are generally around 80%+ effective. So when it comes to paying taxes, its better to pay none, than a lot. Because 66% of that money isn't going to help people. Its going into the pockets of all the government employees and beuacratic departments just to attempt to run any of Bernie's policies. Unlike the wall, a small purchase that isn't even that expensive to produce and maintain. What Bernie wants will change the financial stability of the whole country by an extreme amount, possibly destroy any economic growth, overhaul and entire medical and educational system that has been fucked up for several decades, and increase taxes by like 60%, while simultaneously destroying the market for things like degrees essentially wasting trillions of dollars a year, just so you can have it for free, and you expect it to work. To me, that sounds like a terrible fucking idea and s terrible gamble by a guy who's never worked as a working class American in his life. Its going in half cocked, just because people bitch about going into debt for their own dumb fucking choices in getting stupid ass worthless degrees, when there are so many more viable options, but they fell for the meme that college is the only proper route.

So yeah, the wall sounds like a much better idea. Because we are not gambling the entire fucking nation's well being in an attempt to create an idealistic utopia that can't exist.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

15 trillion dollars is a whole lot more than 50 billion. You see the thing about the government, is that it enacts laws that affect everyone. It benefits some, fucks over others.

Exactly.

The issue of it being "too expensive" when it comes to stuff like Medicare-for-all is really bunk. The deficit is only something the party that isn't in power bitches about. The real issue at hand isn't that one side likes to spend lots of money, and the other side wants to balance the budget. That's just a bogus political talking point.

The real issue is what the government spends money on.

If you don't mind the fact that my money is being wasted on something I don't care about and don't want, than I certainly don't mind when that happens to you. If some of your money gets taken away so that everyone can get a degree in Women's Studies, I'm all for it. Why not? I have to pay for a barrier that doesn't make me any safer. It's not like it protects against the kinds of people who are actually committing mass shootings.

Fair is fair.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Why can't we keep low tax rates for most businesses and just tax the shit out of the tech giants and Amazon? Wasn't that what Yang was suggesting? Amazon can't just leave the country, since they need to have offices and distribution centers here, so the whole "dey gonna send r jobs to china" argument doesn't even apply here. Whereas keeping low taxes for companies that produce actual goods and materials in the USA makes sense.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why can't we keep low tax rates for most businesses and just tax the shit out of the tech giants and Amazon? Wasn't that what Yang was suggesting? Amazon can't just leave the country, since they need to have offices and distribution centers here, so the whole "dey gonna send r jobs to china" argument doesn't even apply here. Whereas keeping low taxes for companies that produce actual goods and materials in the USA makes sense.

Maybe. I do know that while profits on Wall Street have been growing for decades, wages haven't been rising. I doubt the reason for that is illegal immigrants.

 

[Maou]

Exactly.

The issue of it being "too expensive" when it comes to stuff like Medicare-for-all is really bunk. The deficit is only something the party that isn't in power bitches about. The real issue at hand isn't that one side likes to spend lots of money, and the other side wants to balance the budget. That's just a bogus political talking point.

The real issue is what the government spends money on.

If you don't mind the fact that my money is being wasted on something I don't care about and don't want, than I certainly don't mind when that happens to you. If some of your money gets taken away so that everyone can get a degree in Women's Studies, I'm all for it. Why not? I have to pay for a barrier that doesn't make me any safer. It's not like it protects against the kinds of people who are actually committing mass shootings.

Fair is fair.

I don't like how the government is either. I think it should stop trying to improve anything. Every thing it touches turns to shit.

I personally think taxation is theft, and the government can go fuck itself. I also believe in saving my own money, for things like retirement. But no, the system penalizes responsible people, and awards retards and reckless people via taxes they take from everyone. While I understand the government needs money for defense, infrastructure etc, it sure as hell doesn't need to be sticking its fingers into every fucking thing. Insurance is a scam, free shit is a scam, and government funded BS is just redistribution. Prices would plummet if the government stayed the fuck out, and let the market do its thing, while preventing monopolies. I don't believe in taxing the rich more either. The government should simply be a middle man between the people and private businesses. Its not suppose to make money.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't like how the government is either. I think it should stop trying to improve anything. Every thing it touches turns to shit.

I personally think taxation is theft, and the government can go fuck itself. I also believe in saving my own money, for things like retirement. But no, the system penalizes responsible people, and awards retards and reckless people via taxes they take from everyone. While I understand the government needs money for defense, infrastructure etc, it sure as hell doesn't need to be sticking its fingers into every fucking thing. Insurance is a scam, free shit is a scam, and government funded BS is just redistribution. Prices would plummet if the government stayed the fuck out, and let the market do its thing, while preventing monopolies. I don't believe in taxing the rich more either. The government should simply be a middle man between the people and private businesses. Its not suppose to make money.

But you're ok with them stealing from me for a pointless barrier while people will still getting shot at festivals.

 

[Maou]

But you're ok with them stealing from me for a pointless barrier while people will still getting shot at festivals.

You're stealing from me too, so you can't really use that as an argument. No one is justified either way. Which is why compromise is the core of political debate. We have to find middle ground, and quit expecting to get your way, when you're taking from others. Its super easy to spend money that isn't yours. I have always been willing to help people, and compromise. My issue is that the majority of the government can't be trusted, and I honestly feel they are more of a threat than anything else. I don't understand how people got so much fucking stockholm syndrome when it comes to trusting the government.

I 1000% believe the only reason the media and the Democrat higher ups shill "gun violence" isn't because of the tragic loss of life, its because they are using it as an excuse to disarm the population. They don't give a fuck about who dies, and who doesn't. They just want more power, to milk more money out of their wage slaves. So they eventually can never fight back, and then take everything.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You're stealing from me too, so you can't really use that as an argument. No one is justified either way. Which is why compromise is the core of political debate. We have to find middle ground, and quit expecting to get your way, when you're taking from others. Its super easy to spend money that isn't yours. I have always been willing to help people, and compromise. My issue is that the majority of the government can't be trusted, and I honestly feel they are more of a threat than anything else. I don't understand how people got so much fucking stockholm syndrome when it comes to trusting the government.

I 1000% believe the only reason the media and the Democrat higher ups shill "gun violence" isn't because of the tragic loss of life, its because they are using it as an excuse to disarm the population. They don't give a fuck about who dies, and who doesn't. They just want more power, to milk more money out of their wage slaves. So they eventually can never fight back, and then take everything.

Maybe you're not wrong about guns, but I do feel more of a threat from these kinds of incidents (usually perpetrated by citizens rather than illegal immigrants) than I do from the supposed flow of rapists and murders across the border.

Also, regarding the government, you're the one who supports locking kids in cages apart from their parents. (Predicting whatboutism from you, but it's a valid point nonetheless).

 

[Maou]

Maybe you're not wrong, but I do feel more of a threat from these kinds of incidents (usually perpetrated by citizens rather than illegal immigrants) than I do from the supposed flow of rapists and murders across the border.

Whether or not our own citizens are worse than the illegals coming over, doesn't change the fact they are breaking the current law. Good behavior doesn't mean you can get away with murder. I believe in firm law enforcement. Fastest way to get a bad law changed, is to enforce it. Its not even bringing into question the morality of the situation As in any logical approach, the Law and order comes first.

Also, its impossible for a real problem to sink in if it isn't affecting you, but that's when you start looking at crime statistics and people's stories. Which of course is biased, but I always err on the side of caution. Right or wrong, no harm comes from more security at the boarder.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Whether or not our own citizens are worse than the illegals coming over, doesn't change the fact they are breaking the current law. Good behavior doesn't mean you can get away with murder. I believe in firm law enforcement. Fastest way to get a bad law changed, is to enforce it. Its not even bringing into question the morality of the situation As in any logical approach, the Law and order comes first.

Trump is breaking the law by hiring them at his properties.