Incels.

[Deprecator]

Well, gee, couldn't it be said that expecting things in general is a recipe for unhappiness?

If you're trying to charge me with the crime of redundancy then I plead guilty.

 

[Luminous]

I've always felt that expecting other people to act the way that you want them to is often a recipe for unhappiness. Maybe it's a sign that we should be more selective with who we interact with, and maybe that's also what therapists/ support groups are for; we're literally paying them to acknowledge and empathize with a negative experience and offer the 'proper' response that we're looking for.

That isn't what therapists are for.

Really? I've found that victim glorification is actually quite common, and feel it's led rise to the very real phenomenon of victimhood culture. For an example with this story here, literally the first comment says: "Kudos to Marie for her bravery".

The theory doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me: "Because victimhood culture now confers the highest moral status on victims, Campbell and Manning argue that it “increases the incentive to publicize grievances.” Injured and offended parties who might once have thrown a punch or filed a law suit, now appeal for support on social media."

How is that link an example of victimhood culture?

Campbell and Manning argue that accusations of microaggression focus on unintentional slights, unlike the Civil rights movement, which focused on concrete injustices. They argue that the purpose of calling attention to microaggressions is less to elevate the status of offended victim. "When the victims publicize microaggressions,” wrote Campbell and Manning “they call attention to what they see as the deviant behavior of the offenders. In doing so,” they “also call attention to their own victimization.” They do this because it lowers “the offender’s moral status” and “raises the moral status of the victims.”

The Rise of Victimhood Culture - Wikipedia

That article you linked to is about a woman WHO WAS RAPED, then falsely accused of lying about the rape, having her life upended and ruined in several different ways, to later have the police find evidence that she was telling the truth at the very beginning.

Are you arguing that rape is a microaggression? Are you arguing that the rapist is not less moral than his victim, a woman who was raped?

 

[Deprecator]

How is that link an example of victimhood culture?

It wasn't; it was merely an example of praise/ glorification being offered to someone who has endured a rather negative experience. As a trend I thought this was common enough to the point that I was rather surprised to read this comment here:

Never seen anybody praise a woman about that.

 

[Luminous]

It wasn't; it was merely an example of praise/ glorification being offered to someone who has endured a rather negative experience. As a trend I thought this was common enough to the point that I was rather surprised to read this comment here:

So rape is an example of a woman "getting more sex than they want" (your words, not mine)?

 

[Deprecator]

So rape is an example of a woman "getting more sex than they want" (your words, not mine)?

What do you think getting more sex than a person wants would entail?

 

[Luminous]

What do you think getting more sex than a person wants would entail?

I guess this response is a Yes to rape being what you mean.

So... let's rewrite what you said...

Though at the same time, I do think it's interesting how if a guy complains about not ever being able to have sex, a common response is that it's 100% their own fault for being an autistic incel with no social skills.

In contrast, if a woman complains about getting more sex than they want being raped, then not only is it absolutely never their fault, but they're also super brave for being able to come forward and talk about their experience.

First, you don't think people who are victims of violence are brave for speaking about that violence?

Second, are these supposed to be comparable? A man not having sex = a woman being the victim of violence?

Why don't we go further and take gender out of it? Someone not having sex = someone being the victim of violence?

So is the pain a woman would experience by going without sex equal to the pain a man would have if he were violently raped?

 

[Pionart]

Well, gee, couldn't it be said that expecting things in general is a recipe for unhappiness?

Having expectations is not a recipe for unhappiness. If you're INTP maybe you'd want to keep expectations to a low level, I think it's an Fi thing.

 

[Pionart]

What do you think getting more sex than a person wants would entail?

Were you literally referring to rape with your choice of words?

Why did you decide to phrase it that way?


To answer the question, "getting more sex than one wants" could just imply being bored with sex but doing it anyway. Consenting, but not necessarily wanting it. But why would you use the phrase?

 

[Deprecator]

Consenting, but not necessarily wanting it.

Convincing a woman to consent to sex when she really doesn't want to have sex? Is this what we call A++ wife material or is it merely the title to the next New York times bestseller?

"getting more sex than one wants" could just imply being bored with sex but doing it anyway.

Do you think that the subsequent phrase, 'then not only is it absolutely never their fault', might also somehow imply someone who is merely bored of consensual sex?

 

[1487610420]

Dafuq

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This conversation is veering too off topic even for my liking, to say the least.

 

[Deprecator]

I hate dating for the same reasons I hate job interviews

It's funny you say this -- I've been attending job interviews all week and I feel like the best possible preparation for these interviews was my dating experience. The approaches to both are almost identical; I don't like to bring up or mention other companies, because I want to emphasize that I'm interested in them and only them. If I get them talking about themselves, the history of the company and where the direction they're trying to move the company; then I'm very happy. I don't like to brag by saying that I'm smart or that I did well in school; I much prefer to demonstrate these qualities by how I articulate the responses to their questions.

It's why I really don't understand why PUA theory gets such a bad rep -- just like there's 'strategies' or behaviors that make you more appealing at a job interview, so too are their 'strategies' or behaviors that can increase your chances for sex. It just so happened that lots of these methods came quite naturally to me and I never needed a 'guide' to teach me them.

 

[ceecee]

I've always felt that expecting other people to act the way that you want them to is often a recipe for unhappiness. Maybe it's a sign that we should be more selective with who we interact with, and maybe that's also what therapists/ support groups are for; we're literally paying them to acknowledge and empathize with a negative experience and offer the 'proper' response that we're looking for.

I dunno man, I don't think expecting to go to yoga class and not end up shot isn't too much to ask.

Florida yoga studio shooting: Gunman planned attack for months, police say - CNN

Or going to a nightclub and expecting not to be shot.

Dayton Shooter Wrote a ‘Rape List’ and Threatened Women

High expectations, right?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It's funny you say this -- I've been attending job interviews all week and I feel like the best possible preparation for these interviews was my dating experience. The approaches to both are almost identical; I don't like to bring up or mention other companies, because I want to emphasize that I'm interested in them and only them. If I get them talking about themselves, the history of the company and where the direction they're trying to move the company; then I'm very happy. I don't like to brag by saying that I'm smart or that I did well in school; I much prefer to demonstrate these qualities by how I articulate the responses to their questions.

It's why I really don't understand why PUA theory gets such a bad rep -- just like there's 'strategies' or behaviors that make you more appealing at a job interview, so too are their 'strategies' or behaviors that can increase your chances for sex. It just so happened that lots of these methods came quite naturally to me and I never needed a 'guide' to teach me them.

Well something about PUA clearly doesn't work, or there wouldn't be so many blackpills running around these days. Evidently the redpill wasn't enough. As for me, I haven't been on a date since I dumped my last girlfriend. Romance is not something I need to be focusing on right now.

 

[Deprecator]

I dunno man, I don't think expecting to go to yoga class and not end up shot isn't too much to ask.

Guess I'm not living in perpetual fear state that people might shoot me while I'm out for a walk because this thought never woulda crossed my mind.

Regardless, the comment was in reference to the social responses from other people; always expecting people to provide the 'proper response' to a negative experience that conveys both their understanding and heartfelt sympathy is bound to lead to disappointment sooner or later. People can keep complaining about the people that they've decided to confide in, or they can move on elsewhere and find better friends.

 

[ceecee]

Guess I'm not living in perpetual fear state that people might shoot me while I'm out for a walk because this thought never woulda crossed my mind.

If you read the article you would see that the shooter targeted women. After all this is a thread about incels and much of their rage is directed at women.

 

[Deprecator]

Well something about PUA clearly doesn't work

I'm not following all these pill references, but to me it seems most counter intuitive that certain methods/ behaviors/ forms of preparation could help for a job interview, but then all of a sudden no method/ behavior/ form of preparation of any kind can help when trying to acquire sex. For an example, it is my understanding that, simple things like making an effort to dress well and looking presentable, can go a long way with both dates and interviews, even if they don't offer guarantees.

Also I don't think there's widespread consensus for any given PUA theory; there's always going to be varying views/ opinions on what works/ doesn't work. While there may not be a 'catch all solution', at the same time I'm always happy to vouch for some of the things that have worked for me.

 

[ceecee]

 

[Sacrophagus]

He's just scared for his benis.

"There's doodoo there."

He's woke as fuck.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm not following all these pill references, but to me it seems most counter intuitive that certain methods/ behaviors/ forms of preparation could help for a job interview, but then all of a sudden no method/ behavior/ form of preparation of any kind can help when trying to acquire sex.

Well, first of all, some people aren't looking for just sex, and second of all, the objection is that PUA is a bit more than just certain methods/behaviors/ forms of preparation, and third of all, it's effectiveness seems to be overstated.

But maybe the D.E.N.N.I.S. system would totally turn my life around!

LOL, wut? It's a Simpsons joke come to life!