2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Jaguar]

Hope you're right.

She really was hated by a large number of people. Joe is a 'we' guy, not an 'I' guy. He's the opposite of Trump. The problem is, despite the fact that Joe has a long history of getting deals done across the aisle, the people across the aisle are now a bunch of criminals. I've never seen it this bad in the GOP. Ever. That's concerning.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

She really was hated by a large number of people. Joe is a 'we' guy, not an 'I' guy. He's the opposite of Trump. The problem is, despite the fact that Joe has a long history of getting deals done across the aisle, the people across the aisle are now a bunch of criminals. I've never seen it this bad in the GOP. Ever. That's concerning.

So, why do you think that ability is important? Doesn't that amount to enabling criminal behavior?

By the way, I'm not surprised by the behavior of the Republicans at all in this regard. It's just reached a point where it's really hard to deny.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A Scene in Contemporary American Discourse in One Act

A Scene in Contemporary American Political Discourse in One Act

Person 1: Hey, that person's acting like an asshole.

Person 2: No, he's not an asshole. He just has his own point of view. You need to have empathy and understand where he's coming from.

Person 1: But I..... fine, nevermind.

Title screen, one decade later:

Person 2: How could that person act like such an asshole? I thought that person was better than that!

Person 1: Hmm, well he always kind of seemed like an asshole.

Person 2: No, you don't understand the gravity of the situation. This is unprecedented, these assholes are in charge of things! You don't understand how big a problem it is to have assholes in charge of things!

 

[Jaguar]

So, why do you think that ability is important? Doesn't that amount to enabling criminal behavior?

By the way, I'm not surprised by the behavior of the Republicans at all in this regard. It's just reached a point where it's really hard to deny.

Are they there to do the people's business or are they there to be obstructionists? The didn't get voted in to do nothing. If they don't want to work together, get the fuck out. And I'd tell them that. Mitch needs to be driven off a cliff. lol.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Are they there to do the people's business or are they there to be obstructionists? The didn't get voted in to do nothing. If they don't want to work together, get the fuck out. And I'd tell them that. Mitch needs to be driven off a cliff. lol.

That's great, but people will keep voting for them anyway.

 

[Jaguar]

That's great, but people will keep voting for them anyway.

You mean idiots.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Speaking of Buttigieg and the Russians. There is a part of equation that can be easy to miss.

The problem is that with someone like that you are pushing the entire "eastern Europe" back to the Russians and open the doors to even more pro-Russian politics. This is because here this creates the impression that US can't elect sane people anymore. However since we are in another great west-east turmoil this can really make a difference on the long run. Should people vote how East-Europeans think? Probably not. However this is something that people should perhaps keep in mind since the Russians wouldn't give you mercy on this one.



EDIT: in the places like Middle East this factor is probably even worse.



EDIT 2: Yeah

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh, and I'd be happy with Bernie. If this is the unprecedented crisis of American democracy people are making it out to be, time for more extreme solutions, since the milquetoast approach hasn't exactly proven effective against Trump or the Republican party at large.

If it isn't an unprecedented crisis of American democracy, then I could maybe justify supporting the primary campaign of someone who has enabled the most destructive Republican policies of the new millenium and who hasn't even bothered to show up at a lot of campaign events a lot of other people in the field have participated in. How do you know someone like that won't buckle under the pressure and seek a "bipartisan" way of continuing Trump's bullshit policies?

Well, Bernie would perhaps be the best in remaking the working/middle class and perhaps at remaking the industrial engine of USA. However he has his flaws as well. They will throw every anti-socialism card they have on him in GE. He can be too nice at times. Will he have a congress/senate that will support him ? Probably not. He wants to implement various things that exist in other developed countries but he often lacks details regarding transitions. I mean the other countries were building those systems for many decades, you simply can't do a full transition in one term (perhaps not even in two). Plus as Biden he has the "age problem".


The dems really have to be careful since they don't have the ideal candidate however you turn it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Well, Bernie would perhaps be the best in remaking the working/middle class and perhaps at remaking the industrial engine of USA. However he has his flaws as well. They will throw every anti-socialism card they have on him in GE.

Meh, Republicans call all Democrats socialists anyway. The way I see it, can't hurt to have someone who actually self-applies the label.

 

[Jaguar]

Continuing Trump's bullshit policies. What policies? The only thing I have seen is Trump rolling back everything Obama did. He has nothing better to do than screw with the Alaskan salmon ecosystem. Why? Obama gave a rat's ass. It's like watching a petulant child shit itself.

Bernie 78.
Biden 77.
Warren 70.
Trump 73.

A bunch of old people. Is that really the argument?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

\
A bunch of old people. Is that really the argument?

Naw, age has nothing to do with it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Meh, Republicans call all Democrats socialists anyway. The way I see it, can't hurt to have someone who actually self-applies the label.

I meant it more like "the democrats will call him socialist". He can win but I don't think it is as certain as some of his supporters believe. Especially since most of your countrymen really don't think like you.
At this point probably everyone got his general message and now he needs to focus more on the implementation if he really wants to do something.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I meant it more like "the democrats will call him socialist". He can win but I don't think it is as certain as some of his supporters believe. Especially since most of your countrymen really don't think like you.

If you said that five years ago, I would have agreed with you. However, I was pleasantly surprised by how well he did in the 2016 primaries. I had him pegged as another Howard Dean, but he did far better than that. I think things have really shifted in this country; likely it's a combination of unsuccessful, unpopular wars, the recession earlier in the decade, the threat of climate change. Another thing that must have played a role is the ascendancy of a new generation where all those things have hit them smack dab in the face and they can't just ignore them because they were living as comfortable adults sure of their place in life.

Is it enough to win a general? I don't know, but I'm willing to try, and argue that the exceptional circumstances we're living in make that more of a necessity rather than less.

The way I see it, if we don't address certain issues, that paves the way for more candidates like Trump or worse in the future. I'm not sure I'd count it as a wing if we get a Biden presidency and 8 years later we get Trump 2.0 because he didn't do anything about serious problems (like say, lead in the water supply in Michigan).

 

[Virtual ghost]

If you said that five years ago, I would have agreed with you. However, I was pleasantly surprised by how well he did in the 2016 primaries. I had him pegged as another Howard Dean, but he did far better than that. I think things have really shifted in this country; likely it's a combination of unsuccessful, unpopular wars, the recession earlier in the decade, the threat of climate change. Another thing that must have played a role is the ascendancy of a new generation where all those things have hit them smack dab in the face and they can't just ignore them because they were living as comfortable adults sure of their place in life.

Is it enough to win a general? I don't know, but I'm willing to try, and argue that the exceptional circumstances we're living in make that more of a necessity rather than less.

The way I see it, if we don't address certain issues, that paves the way for more candidates like Trump or worse in the future. I'm not sure I'd count it as a wing if we get a Biden presidency and 8 years later we get Trump 2.0 because he didn't do anything about serious problems (like say, lead in the water supply in Michigan).

Yes, but good chunk of the party was against him and it still is. I am simply saying that there is still an uphill battle, not that it not the one worth fighting. However the problem is that I am not sure how well he will do with economic transitions, since economy and the budget are in toilet at this point (if you scratch the surface).


Also Bernie as well as Biden will probably be 1 term presidents. Since at the start of the term they will be close to being 80.

 

[ceecee]

She really was hated by a large number of people. Joe is a 'we' guy, not an 'I' guy. He's the opposite of Trump. The problem is, despite the fact that Joe has a long history of getting deals done across the aisle, the people across the aisle are now a bunch of criminals. I've never seen it this bad in the GOP. Ever. That's concerning.

Both parties are now ideologically coherent. There is no more working across the isle. The authoritarian right bent has been happening since the 90's in regards to the GOP and the centrist Dems are simply GOP-lite by choice, not because the majority of people want that. This country is so beat down, that's why so many people are totally fine with someone like Joe Biden. That's also why the adjectives of choice seem to be "concerning" or "disturbing" instead of "unacceptable" or "absofuckinglutely not going to continue".

 

[ceecee]

I meant it more like "the democrats will call him socialist". He can win but I don't think it is as certain as some of his supporters believe. Especially since most of your countrymen really don't think like you.
At this point probably everyone got his general message and now he needs to focus more on the implementation if he really wants to do something.

He's the ONLY candidate focused on working people. I don't think anything is certain in any election but 2016 proved a lying poser can win just as easily as someone that's dedicated their entire working life doing and saying mostly the right things in the face of massive pressure minus becoming a corporate shill or complete cunt of a person (often the same thing, I know).

 

[Virtual ghost]

He's the ONLY candidate focused on working people. I don't think anything is certain in any election but 2016 proved a lying poser can win just as easily as someone that's dedicated their entire working life doing and saying mostly the right things in the face of massive pressure minus becoming a corporate shill or complete cunt of a person (often the same thing, I know).

He probably is. However as we both know people don't always vote by their self-interest. As a matter of fact remake of American working class is actually in the interest of American rich people (since those people are both producers and consumers). What is important especially now when the whole world is getting more totalitarian. Therefore if CEOs can miss the point, average Joe surely can.



I just watched the news: Putin is increasing further military cooperation with 5 ex-USSR countries.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

He probably is. However as we both know people don't always vote by their self-interest. As a matter of fact remake of American working class is actually in the interest of American rich people (since those people are both producers and consumers).

But, more often than not, rich people prefer to whine about how that would mean other people taking their money (the money that they got by hiring lobbyists to help write laws for them... apparently that counts as an honest living) rather than actually deal with reality.

 

[Virtual ghost]

But, more often than not, rich people prefer to whine about how that would mean other people taking their money (the money that they got by hiring lobbyists to help write laws for them... apparently that counts as an honest living) rather than actually deal with reality.

Well if you go with rampant redistribution that surely is the case, at least on the short run. Therefore everything would be better if they simply decide to invest it in local economy for a change. However they wouldn't do it as long as they have large extra profit by doing the investment somewhere else. What in the end kills their consumers and eventually their core business.


Therefore the only real solution if you want to avoid reactive scenarios is that everyone sits down at the table and talks this through before it is too late for everyone. Although I am not sure if USA has a special social council that involves government, employer's guild and the unions.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Although I am not sure if USA has a special social council that involves government, employer's guild and the unions.

Uh, don't think we have that.

Also, protectionism is bad now because Donald Trump supports it.