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  1. #11
    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    It is easily to see which candidates the oligarchy wants. And they hate when anyone disrupts their carefully constructed narrative.

    Sure, there are competing factions of the oligarchy, but there are definite approved candidates and definite unapproved candidates. The most unapproved candidates for the Democrats are Bernie, Yang, Tulsi, and Marianne.
    Oh, definitely, although I'm not sure if I'd include Yang or not. I think Yang is a little less threatening than the others, because he mostly has one issue. They were very harsh towards Dean and Dean wasn't even an especially radical Democrat apart from believing that the Iraq war was a stupid mistake (which he ended up being vindicated on). He certainly wasn't like Bernie.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi


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  2. #12
    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Gabbard reaches donor threshold

    She still needs to poll above 2%, though.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



  3. #13
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    Can we promise each other that no matter how heated the 2020 elections will be next year, that we all won't throttle each other like in 2016?
    Still not over being called every name under the sun just because Trump won, especially since I didn't vote for him.
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    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrsken View Post
    Can we promise each other that no matter how heated the 2020 elections will be next year, that we all won't throttle each other like in 2016?
    Still not over being called every name under the sun just because Trump won, especially since I didn't vote for him.
    Not sure if this is what you're getting at, but I feel like people who voted for Bernie don't really have anything to apologize for.
    A path is made by walking on it.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    Not sure if this is what you're getting at, but I feel like people who voted for Bernie don't really have anything to apologize for.
    Can this be said the same for anyone running, though?

  6. #16
    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrsken View Post
    Can this be said the same for anyone running, though?
    I voted for Hillary in the general. I do think, regardless of things like Comey or Russia, she had some serious weaknesses in her messaging and the way she ran her campaign. It's worth pointing out still because I'm afraid people are going to repeat it a second time.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi


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  7. #17
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrsken View Post
    Can we promise each other that no matter how heated the 2020 elections will be next year, that we all won't throttle each other like in 2016?
    Still not over being called every name under the sun just because Trump won, especially since I didn't vote for him.
    If the mods are serious about their new rules, that shouldn't happen, not on this forum anyway. But I can bet dollars to donuts that the 2020 election is going to be every bit as acrimonious as the 2016 election.

    Regarding the primary:

    I suspect Biden will fall. Right now I see him running entirely on name recognition and wistful memories of having a President that can actually speak above a 5th grade level.

    If the vote was tomorrow I would vote on Warren, but the reality is that there is a lot of good candidates running so I've got plenty of choices at this point.
    Last edited by tinker683; 08-05-2019 at 02:24 PM. Reason: I've been posting here for almost a decade and my proof reading is still terrible
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson
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  8. #18
    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    If the mods are serious about their new rules, that shouldn't happen, not on this forum anyway. But I can bet dollars to donuts that the 2020 election is going to be every bit as acrimonious as the 2016 election.
    I think there was some ridiculous stuff on both sides of the Democratic field in 2016. Some guy here chewed into me because I said during a primary debate that Hillary looked presidential. This was before any primaries were held, when Bernie surpassed my expectations. I didn't expect him to win as many states as he did. It caused me to revise my understanding of what exactly is going on, and actually made me optimistic.

    And then on the other side.... there are the folks of accusing anyone who doesn't love Hillary of being a Russian bot. Like supporting the war in Iraq is so defensible. Did you know there was another senator or congressman who had this report that said all the evidence regarding WMDs in Iraq was bogus before that vote took place? He begged Hillary to read it, and it seems like she refused (although the details are murky). So the idea that everyone had good reason to believe there were WMDs at the time was bullshit (which makes sense, because I remember reading that somewhere, and I wasn't entirely convinced by photos of pipes and sheds, either). We talk about how poor Trump's judgement is, but that wasn't very good judgement, either. She was in a position to make a huge difference, too, because of her name recognition. Perhaps if she had, she'd have been president already.

    Of course the primary process is ridiculous and is sort of rigged (and it kind of always has been; it's actually better than it used to be), but I already knew that before 2016. They should hold all the primaries on the same day, and get rid of superdelegatess, of course.

    My general thoughts about the idea of people blaming Bernie for Hillary losing are horseshit. If anything, Bernie injected new energy and enthusiasm into Democratic party politics (certainly did in my case), which is kind of what you need. Otherwise candidates act as a soporific by trying to appeal to magical "true conservatives" who apparently dislike the current administration, but whose concerns about taxes and maybe abortion will always end up trumping (ha!) everything else. People pulled that shit in 2004, and it failed spectacularly. Bush actually won the popular vote that time.
    Regarding the primary:

    I suspect Biden will fall. Right now I see him running entirely on name recognition and wistful memories of having a President that can actually speak above a 5th grade level.
    I really hope so, but I think Democratic primary voters are an overly fearful lot who worry too much about 1972 and McGovern, and not enough about 2004 or 2016. Electability is a bullshit argument, but people keep falling for it. Chances are that if nobody you know is enthusiastic about the candidate you want to nominate, that translates this to the general election in a way you don't want.

    If the vote was tomorrow I would vote on Warren, but the reality is that there is a lot of good candidates running so I've got plenty of choices at this point.
    I like Warren on paper, but experience has taught me that nobody cares about policies and proposals when up against memes and soundbites.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi


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  9. #19
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    I think there was some ridiculous stuff on both sides of the Democratic field in 2016. Some guy here chewed into me because I said during a primary debate that Hillary looked presidential. This was before any primaries were held, when Bernie surpassed my expectations. I didn't expect him to win as many states as he did. It caused me to revise my understanding of what exactly is going on, and actually made me optimistic.

    And then on the other side.... there are the folks of accusing anyone who doesn't love Hillary of being a Russian bot. Like supporting the war in Iraq is so defensible. Did you know there was another senator or congressman who had this report that said all the evidence regarding WMDs in Iraq was bogus before that vote took place? He begged Hillary to read it, and it seems like she refused (although the details are murky). So the idea that everyone had good reason to believe there were WMDs at the time was bullshit (which makes sense, because I remember reading that somewhere, and I wasn't entirely convinced by photos of pipes and sheds, either). We talk about how poor Trump's judgement is, but that wasn't very good judgement, either. She was in a position to make a huge difference, too, because of her name recognition. Perhaps if she had, she'd have been president already.

    Of course the primary process is ridiculous and is sort of rigged (and it kind of always has been; it's actually better than it used to be), but I already knew that before 2016. They should hold all the primaries on the same day, and get rid of superdelegatess, of course.

    My general thoughts about the idea of people blaming Bernie for Hillary losing are horseshit. If anything, Bernie injected new energy and enthusiasm into Democratic party politics (certainly did in my case), which is kind of what you need. Otherwise candidates act as a soporific by trying to appeal to magical "true conservatives" who apparently dislike the current administration, but whose concerns about taxes and maybe abortion will always end up trumping (ha!) everything else. People pulled that shit in 2004, and it failed spectacularly. Bush actually won the popular vote that time.
    I say this with all due respect, I realize you have some grievances with how you were treated by other forum members back then but I need you to know right now, I am not the guy to go to with all of this, mostly because I have *zero* interest in re-ligating the 2016 election with the individuals on this forum. I have enough venom and bile from that time and since to last me a lifetime. To be as polite as I can, I'm not interested in participating in any such discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    I really hope so, but I think Democratic primary voters are an overly fearful lot who worry too much about 1972 and McGovern, and not enough about 2004 or 2016. Electability is a bullshit argument, but people keep falling for it. Chances are that if nobody you know is enthusiastic about the candidate you want to nominate, that translates this to the general election in a way you don't want.

    I like Warren on paper, but experience has taught me that nobody cares about policies and proposals when up against memes and soundbites.
    I would agree with both of these sentiments, and I feel the American people are worse off because of it. I should think after the past two and half years, the American public would be ready for something who actually has an inkling of what they're actually doing.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  10. #20
    werewolf of london Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I say this with all due respect, I realize you have some grievances with how you were treated by other forum members back then but I need you to know right now, I am not the guy to go to with all of this, mostly because I have *zero* interest in re-ligating the 2016 election with the individuals on this forum. I have enough venom and bile from that time and since to last me a lifetime. To be as polite as I can, I'm not interested in participating in any such discussion.
    Hmm, grievances is a bit strong. I would say that if I have grievances (which is possible; I nurse grudges) against people, they would predate 2016.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



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