Can someone explain to me why people supported Brexit in the first place?

[Lark]

Far right coup underway in the UK.

 

[rav3n]

Corbyn has also written the Queen, to block Johnson's 'smash and grab' prorogue.

 

[rav3n]

Looks like Corbyn's too late, as usual.

Brexit shock as Queen agrees to suspend UK Parliament - CNN

Brexit shock as Queen agrees to suspend UK Parliament

 

[Virtual ghost]

To be honest what most floats around my mind regarding Brexit is what will happen once the conservatives lose power. What will happen eventually in a democracy.
It isn't that you can't re-enter the union in a hypothetical scenario.

 

[Falcarius]

To be honest what most floats around my mind regarding Brexit is what will happen once the conservatives lose power. What will happen eventually in a democracy.
It isn't that you can't re-enter the union in a hypothetical scenario.

Democracy in UK is OK; there is only a constitutional crises because of Brexit and once it happens there is no constitutional crises. There might be a financial crises but democracy is Ok.

If UK has left then it either has a transition agreement or the EU is going to have to come up with a free-trade agreement pretty fast if they ever want to be paid their 40 billion pounds and not be embroil in a trade war which will cripple countries like Ireland and Netherlands.. So why would the UK want to ever rejoin if it can have free-trade agreement?

Also the other way around, when Britain has left it is done with the EU, since why the hell would the EU ever except UK back again after the problems it causes? Don't you think France would veto the UK re-entry?

This is why Remainer don't want UK to leave as they know it is game-over once Brexit has happened. Otherwise they would just wait for the country to be crippled in a no-deal Brexit and say we told you so and campaign for second referendum.

 

[ceecee]

Democracy in UK is OK; there is only a constitutional crises because of Brexit once it happens there is no constitutional crises. There might be a financial crises but democracy is Ok.

You might want to consider how much instability occurs after a financial crisis, historically. It's not as though it's never happened before and the foundations are already being laid all over Europe, before you claim your democracy is ok so cavalierly.

 

[Lark]

To be honest what most floats around my mind regarding Brexit is what will happen once the conservatives lose power. What will happen eventually in a democracy.
It isn't that you can't re-enter the union in a hypothetical scenario.

Aye but never with as good a deal as presently, never as one of the founder members as the UK has been.

Plus it will be the post-Brexit UK petitioning for membership with all the indications of the kinds of concentrations of wealth, deteriorating infrastructure, record under investment etc. that indications are this will involve, honestly, I dont know how it would be possible if the coup plotters are successful with the reintroduction of state executions, abolition of child and social services and other radicalism they have planned.

Although there'll always we a democratic underground. I suppose. A fifth column of Europeans.

 

[Lark]

Democracy in UK is OK; there is only a constitutional crises because of Brexit once it happens there is no constitutional crises. There might be a financial crises but democracy is Ok.

If UK has left then it either has a transition agreement or the EU is going to have to come up with a free-trade agreement pretty fast if they ever want to be paid their 40 billion pounds and not be embroil in a trade war. So why would the UK want to ever rejoin if it can have free-trade agreement?

Also the other way around Britain has left it is done with the EU, since why the hell would the EU ever except UK back again after the problems it causes? Don't you think France would Veto the UK re-entry?

Why does the EU have to do anything?

I'm sure the other member states will cope with the UK.

What evidence do you have to suggest they wont?

Anyway, the EU probably wont have the UK back, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a different matter though. The so called UK will be history soon. England can go its own way we'll all see how that works out. I just hope that the inevitable Russian occupation stops at the border with Scotland.

 

[Falcarius]

You might want to consider how much instability occurs after a financial crisis, historically. It's not as though it's never happened before and the foundations are already being laid all over Europe, before you claim your democracy is ok so cavalierly.

The world won't end like the average Remainer thinks. The UK has had financial crises and it got out of them. For example, after WWII UK public debit was at 240% and the country managed to afford to create NHS; do you honestly think Brexit it is going to be worse than a world war financial?

How is democracy going to suddenly going to be undermined post-Brexit? What is going to undermine democracy?

 

[Red Herring]

How is what Johnson is doing to parliament not damaging democracy? I think before 2016, probably even for a while after that, people would have gone to the streets about this in masses. It would be considered a massive scandal. Now this seems to be the new normal.

What was once a beacon of democracy and stability now looks highly unstable and shows utter disregard for democratic procedure.

 

[ceecee]

The world won't end like the average Remainer thinks. The UK has had financial crises and it got out of them. For example, after WWII UK public debit was at 240% and the country managed to afford to create NHS; do you honestly think Brexit it is going to be worse than a world war financial?

How is democracy going to suddenly going to be undermined post-Brexit? What is going to undermine democracy?

Oh don't get confused, I think the EU needs to go. The rest, it sounds like you have it all figured out.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Why does the EU have to do anything?

I'm sure the other member states will cope with the UK.

What evidence do you have to suggest they wont?

Anyway, the EU probably wont have the UK back, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a different matter though. The so called UK will be history soon. England can go its own way we'll all see how that works out. I just hope that the inevitable Russian occupation stops at the border with Scotland.

What about Wales ?
I have seen projections about if they can go alone.

 

[Falcarius]

Why does the EU have to do anything?

I'm sure the other member states will cope with the UK.

What evidence do you have to suggest they wont?

Anyway, the EU probably wont have the UK back, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a different matter though. The so called UK will be history soon. England can go its own way we'll all see how that works out. I just hope that the inevitable Russian occupation stops at the border with Scotland.

As Trump would say money talks. The EU want there 40 billion and it is mutually beneficial having a free-trade deal for both parties. This is not just going to impact on UK any financial shock will impact on the EU too. It is not in the EU interest to have another hostile nation on its doorstep as it is bad enough with just Russia.

Scotland have to get permission from PM for independence vote and Northern Ireland there is an agreed process in place. So it is just really NI who could really leave.

 

[Virtual ghost]

How is what Johnson is doing to parliament not damaging democracy? I think before 2016, probably even for a while after that, people would have gone to the streets about this in masses. It would be considered a massive scandal. Now this seems to be the new normal.

What was once a beacon of democracy and stability now looks highly unstable and shows utter disregard for democratic procedure.

I had the same thought. All of this is pretty good foundation for undemocratic games post Brexit.
This is reducing criteria to the level of Eastern Europe or Turkey.

 

[Falcarius]

What about Wales ?
I have seen projections about if they can go alone.

Wales voted for Brexit and strongly pro-UK.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Scotland have to get permission from PM for independence vote and Northern Ireland there is an agreed process in place. So it is just really NI who could really leave.

When we were exiting Yugoslavia we didn't have the permission either but representatives just packed the bags and left (and you know what happened after). However if a nation or a group really don't want to be a part of something the rules of the club no longer apply. Not to mention that we left for a very similar reasons: arrogance of the central government, suppression of our identity, economic nonsense ...


It is better that I am wrong but once passions boil over no one will care too much about laws. Since the central government lost the credibility over the last few years, especially if NI will be able to just leave. (while in our case that was Slovenia)


Just saying.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Wales voted for Brexit and strongly pro-UK.

Google says more like 53 vs. 47.
All of this turned into the problem exactly because the results are so bordering that there wasn't a clear conclusion. Actually some people don't want second referendum exactly because they know how would that probably end, since the whole thing caught most people off guard.

 

[Lark]

What about Wales ?
I have seen projections about if they can go alone.

Wales?

Henceforth it is "Greater England"

- - - Updated - - -

Oh don't get confused, I think the EU needs to go. The rest, it sounds like you have it all figured out.

US can go first.

- - - Updated - - -

As Trump would say money talks. The EU want there 40 billion and it is mutually beneficial having a free-trade deal for both parties. This is not just going to impact on UK any financial shock will impact on the EU too. It is not in the EU interest to have another hostile nation on its doorstep as it is bad enough with just Russia.

Scotland have to get permission from PM for independence vote and Northern Ireland there is an agreed process in place. So it is just really NI who could really leave.

What flavour Kool Aid is that?

 

[Lark]

When we were exiting Yugoslavia we didn't have the permission either but representatives just packed the bags and left (and you know what happened after). However if a nation or a group really don't want to be a part of something the rules of the club no longer apply. Not to mention that we left for a very similar reasons: arrogance of the central government, suppression of our identity, economic nonsense ...


It is better that I am wrong but once passions boil over no one will care too much about laws. Since the central government lost the credibility over the last few years, especially if NI will be able to just leave. (while in our case that was Slovenia)


Just saying.

I'm glad that at this point it looks like the real trouble could be especially concentrated within England itself.

NI will have its own problems but there is a friendly neighbouring state in form of the ROI which feels at least some obligation to the people in NI. Its clear that England does not. Beyond the votes it can secure from NI to shore up its incredibly small parliamentary majority.

The English rioting of a few years back (which had a big unreported English Defence League role) I think were a pretty good dress rehearsal of what is going to play out, only it'll probably be longer, more damaging.

 

[Lark]

Google says more like 53 vs. 47.
All of this turned into the problem exactly because the results are so bordering that there wasn't a clear conclusion. Actually some people don't want second referendum exactly because they know how would that probably end, since the whole thing caught most people off guard.

Well, you got a lot of people who dont understand democracy now and think that single verdicts are set in stone forever, the nature of democracy is that it involves change, in fact in most democratic nations there are even term limits and other mechanisms to ensure that change never becomes that infrequent.

In the UK Parliament its legal practice that administrations can not pass legislation that will be binding upon their successors, that's just how much they expect change to be respected, any government that is freshly elected can choose to undo every piece of legislation introduced by that which went before (and the UK conservatives did so, war debts are the only legacies of the New Labour experiment in neo-liberalism now).