Do the Motivations for Sex Crimes Matter?

[Lark]

So, you dont even want to try?

I'd love to be able to turn lead into gold and there's plenty of myths about that too.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I'd love to be able to turn lead into gold and there's plenty of myths about that too.

They dont seem equivalent.

 

[Metis]

I am honestly just curious, but yes is these rapists dealt with their problems probably about feeling a lack of control then maybe they wouldn't have raped anyone.

Maybe.

It's probably more effective to intervene before someone does something than after he or she starts.

 

[Lib]

Maybe.

It's probably more effective to intervene before someone does something than after he or she starts.

I asked you to remove my quotes. I'm just going to assume that you are retarded... not a very brave assumption indeed.

 

[Lib]

There's also a post of mine that claims "I rape refrigerators and goldfish." Your relationship with the truth is broken.

Oh, Jag. Don't be such a conformist. Be a man. Show me the truth.

 

[ceecee]

Understanding motivations is not the same as justifying abhorrent behavior.

Correct. Understanding the behavior can help identify underlying causes or trauma or other conditions that cause people to rape. I would personally like to know what compels a grown woman to rape a teenage boy but too many adult males seem to feel this isn't the violation it actually is, hampering any meaningful study let alone prosecution equality.

 

[tinker683]

Didn't read the thread, just the OP?

I would say the motivations matters only in as much as we can understand them so we can try to prevent it/stop it from happening.

 

[Cellmold]

If we could pigeon hole every aspect of a personality and motivation so rigidly, we would be able to solve every problem and cordone off those who (apparently) cannot be helped, using algorithms.

Alas this is not the plot to a science fiction novel.

 

[anticlimatic]

This new old trend of being confronted with what has traditionally been called 'evil' and merely looking the other way after slapping the appropriate moral value judgement on it really aught to cease. I know digging for truth can be uncomfortable, but for gods sake kids grow a pair.

 

[Lark]

This new old trend of being confronted with what has traditionally been called 'evil' and merely looking the other way after slapping the appropriate moral value judgement on it really aught to cease. I know digging for truth can be uncomfortable, but for gods sake kids grow a pair.

I think rape is evil.

I also think evil deserves to be punished with zero tolerance, no ifs, ands, buts or amoral trickery.

Rationalisations which appear to excuse rape or diminish it in any way what so ever really dont do anything other than stoke the rapists who're working hard to avoid any self-reproach or social sanction. Its how they work. They'll continue to work that way.

When considering these sorts of topics and issues its a good idea to do so while keeping it in mind that any ambivalence what so ever by potential victims or the population at large will actively be exploited by rapists. Its how it is. Even if you're treating it as a nice abstract moral reckoning or exercise.

 

[anticlimatic]

I think rape is evil. I also think evil deserves to be punished with zero tolerance, no ifs, ands, buts or amoral trickery. Rationalisations which appear to excuse rape or diminish it in any way what so ever really dont do anything other than stoke the rapists who're working hard to avoid any self-reproach or social sanction. Its how they work. They'll continue to work that way. When considering these sorts of topics and issues its a good idea to do so while keeping it in mind that any ambivalence what so ever by potential victims or the population at large will actively be exploited by rapists. Its how it is. Even if you're treating it as a nice abstract moral reckoning or exercise.

How do you know so much about rapist motivation? This is not a backhanded accusation that you're a rapist, I am simply curious how you arrived at your conclusions without rationality or reason.

 

[Lark]

How do you know so much about rapist motivation? This is not a backhanded accusation that you're a rapist, I am simply curious how you arrived at your conclusions without rationality or reason.

I just recently reviewed a book on Forensic Psychology which has some good material on the topic, check it out on Amazon, if you find it helpful you can give it a like.

Besides that, well, its probably all the years working in the field of childrens services. The years of training before that.

Although I'm sure you're going to stack some experience and evidence base to your own perspective besides "you're so irrational" and "dont moralize".

 

[Totenkindly]

I would say the motivations matters only in as much as we can understand them so we can try to prevent it/stop it from happening.

yeah, essentially understanding motivations can help to potentially arrest repeat rapists (much of the original analysis done was in the FBI behavioral unit), predict rape behavior, and (somewhat) maybe prevent rape behavior or providing leverage in the construction of social policy to address rape.

It doesn't really change the crime, though. Just because we're analyzing rape instances to learn what drives it doesn't relieve a man of responsibility for raping a woman at a bar or a woman molesting a child at day care or whatever other permutation you can bring up. Those are crimes and would still evoke the same punishments.

 

[Jaguar]

a woman molesting a child at day care

What a chilling prospect.

 

[tinker683]

yeah, essentially understanding motivations can help to potentially arrest repeat rapists (much of the original analysis done was in the FBI behavioral unit), predict rape behavior, and (somewhat) maybe prevent rape behavior or providing leverage in the construction of social policy to address rape.

It doesn't really change the crime, though. Just because we're analyzing rape instances to learn what drives it doesn't relieve a man of responsibility for raping a woman at a bar or a woman molesting a child at day care or whatever other permutation you can bring up. Those are crimes and would still evoke the same punishments.

I agree wholly

 

[Virtual ghost]

Motivations in sex matter and I don't see why it would be any different with sex crimes.

 

[Deprecator]

Yeah I can’t see anything justifying rape. You could ask very extreme questions such as:

A man and a woman are the last two humans on earth. They hold the key to the future of humanity or they die alone. One wants to populate the earth, the other doesn’t? Is rape justifiable?

It’s almost one to laugh at actually lol (not that rape is funny, but the situation itself)

Or are the horrid made up moral dillemas of “if you don’t rape so and so, someone will die!”

Which is also weird, if someone doesn’t want sex and is going to die, but doesn’t want to die more than getting unwanted sex. Was that considered rape? If it’s a direct relationship from abuser to victim of course.

But if the abuser forces someone else to rape the victim or they die. That’s kind of different. Would you blame the interlocutor’s value for life or the sanctity of another person outside of them?

It's interesting to note that after prostitution was legalized in DC that incidents of rape suddenly decreased significantly. This fact suggests that in some cases rape can really be just about sex -- that if there were other means to acquire sex then for some men rape would never be necessary or even remotely appealing. Thus a delicate balance is formed between the suffering associated with a man not being able to have sex with the suffering of a woman who is forced to have sex. In theory a man not having sex could be more painful than a woman being forced to have sex, and as soon as this threshold is reached then rape would suddenly increase the "average quality of life" between all parties involved.

Also let's not forget that sex is a biological imperative in which our species (and many others) is collectively dependent on for survival. As such, if it could be argued that biological imperatives (i.e. food, water, etc) are greater than social/ legal imperatives, then rape could be justified if it was the only means by which procreation could occur for a given individual. And really, the same argument can be made if you were starving to death and had to steal to eat food because in either case you're breaking the law in order to placate a biological imperative.

That said, I think it's a dangerous precedent to treat rape differently than other crimes. Today with the whole "trial by media" deal, mere accusations are enough to circumvent due process entirely and ruin a person's life. A person may not go to prison per se, but if you lose your job, are expelled from school and are ousted by all your social groups then I do think that this would be somewhat equivalent to a guilty verdict by a jury.

 

[Mole]

Sexual crimes are usually based on fact free fantasy.

So it is no coincidence that mbti is based on fact free fantasy.

And both sexual crimes and mbti are compelling, over-riding the facts.

If we have a change of heart, we can find the facts of mbti in "Personality Brokers" by Merve Emre.

 

[Metis]

Sexual crimes are usually based on fact free fantasy.

So it is no coincidence that mbti is based on fact free fantasy.

And both sexual crimes and mbti are compelling, over-riding the facts.

If we have a change of heart, we can find the facts of mbti in "Personality Brokers" by Merve Emre.

WTF

So should we just guillotine MBTI altogether, or should we investigate the motives in the hope it won't happen again?

 

[Wunjo]

They don't, at least positively; because they don't alleviate the traumatic outcome for the victim in any way.