ManipuLation

[1487610420]

Just curious. It's true that such manipulative behavior is used by some women but they are normally bordering psychopathy.

The book is not about some women, it's about society.

 

[Lib]

The book is not about some women, it's about society.

Oh, so you've read it I haven't. Only read two reviews and it sounded as if the book is leaning into some radical direction.

 

[Lib]

I've read it. It's harder on men than it is on women.

I meant the idea that men are manipulated as some kind of puppets is a little exaggerated...

 

[Lark]

I think there is plenty of manipulation, I also think there's a serious problem in then suggesting because there is that its the norm and everyone should just go with it and become the best its possible to be at manipulating others. It is validating the sorts of social order which produce psychopaths and their imitators.

Its something I've noticed A LOT among any group which has a record of being used and abused or oppressed themselves, they are the greatest authors of that shit when it comes to others, there is no automatic lesson learned by anyone who has been on the receiving end that they shouldnt pay it forward one way or another.

Some of the most abusive and manipulative mothers are women who have choosen or who choose the most manipulative and abusive partners. Now you can debate the role of male power or patriarchy in all that but it is one unholy shit show that perpetuates itself in disgusting fashion, the prospect of it spreading out far beyond the original boundary of those kinds of toxic family dynamics and to just everyone per se is just something god awful altogether.

 

[Lib]

Read the book

No

 

[1487610420]

Oh, so you've read it I haven't. Only read two reviews and it sounded as if the book is leaning into some radical direction.

Who ever needs to read a book before judging it

 

[Lib]

Who ever needs to read a book before judging it

Well, in the best case scenario, the book is about how society is using guys as powerhouses, forcing them to work hard to please the bitches if they want to get some and buy a peaceful home environment, but men nonetheless get to live an interesting life and when it becomes annoying and unpleasant, e.g. when they need to focus on others, normally after retirement, they adopt a bunch of unhealthy habits (or just continue with the ones they have) to die relatively young under the mother-like care of their wives. Hope it also mentions how women are manipulated to take care of their children on a daily basis without being given any pension or any reward for that matter, as if they are supposed to provide this service for free. Oh, and with this burden they don't even get to have a career but could only afford to work low paid, low status jobs as servants. A whole-life servant! A fairy tale. Being a servant is so manipulative.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Manipulation is essentially saying to the other person/s, "Validate me; reward my neurosis; feed my ego" with no respect to others' feelings or values. It comes from a dark place of selfishness and looking outside ourselves to get our needs fulfilled - or what we think we may need.

 

[yeghor]

How would you define manipulation?

Do you condemn it per se or the intentions are important?

Do people who have been manipulated must be held responsible for their actions?

a) Manipulation = Skewing others' decision making, by feeding them inaccurate or incomplete information.

b) I condemn it, even with good intentions, it will eventually hurt the manipulated person in the long term, as you deprive them of their agency.

c) Yes they must, it can be considered a mitigating measure though. Otherwise, we would have to excuse lynching/mobbing.

People owe it to others to strengthen their critical thinking and judgment skills and refrain from jumping to conclusions.

Baldwin and Balian (Did Baldwin manipulate Balian now?)