The New Left vs. The Alt Right: It's a trap!

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

[MENTION=19700]asynartetic[/MENTION] seems to have picked up on it. The majority of #wokeaf people are playing right into this manufactured dichotomy.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Divide and conquer. Make people notice their differences more than their similarities. Make people afraid of those differences. Pick at old wounds so they never fully heal.

Makes me want to check out and go live in a cabin in northern Canada.

 

[Lark]

Which new left are you talking about?

There was the one in the 1840s, the one in the 1940s, the one in the 1960s, the one in the 1970s/80s in the UK, the one in the 1990s in the US and UK with Clinton-Blair.

 

[Icedream]

Are you asking because you don't know, or because you want to be contrarian?

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Makes me want to check out and go live in a cabin in northern Canada.

I plan on joining a monestary after my daughter is married at a young age to a godly man.

 

[Lark]

Are you asking because you don't know, or because you want to be contrarian?

Me? Well, there's a real difference between any of these "new lefts", there's definitely a big difference between New Labour/New Democrats than the Daniel Cohn-Bendit/Abbie Hoffman/Students for a Democratic Society but I may be being contrarian in that I was challenging the "new", the same as anyone could challenge the so called "alt" nature of the "alt right", I think there's a lot of continuity with mainstream right wing thinking to be honest.

I do think the whole thing is a trap though, I think the difference is between a culture of life or culture of death, although it could fit national and ethnic struggles that they are spread or amplified in some contexts and not others.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Which new left are you talking about?

There was the one in the 1840s, the one in the 1940s, the one in the 1960s, the one in the 1970s/80s in the UK, the one in the 1990s in the US and UK with Clinton-Blair.

Current year new left because it's the current year and not 1840.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I may be being contrarian in that I was challenging the "new", the same as anyone could challenge the so called "alt" nature of the "alt right", I think there's a lot of continuity with mainstream right wing thinking to be honest.

In fairness, the narrator did more or less explain that the "new" and "alt" movements are just rebranding and repackaging of decades old ideologies.

 

[Lark]

I plan on joining a monestary after my daughter is married at a young age to a godly man.

I dont know, I thought about it but there's a lot of those sorts of religious communities which are populated exclusively by homosexuals and odd types of people. Otherwise sure, it'd be an awesome plan.

 

[Lark]

Current year new left because it's the current year and not 1840.

You get the point though surely, history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce.

The people fought for liberty, equality, fraternity and instead they got infantry, cavalry, artillery.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I dont know, I thought about it but there's a lot of those sorts of religious communities which are populated exclusively by homosexuals and odd types of people. Otherwise sure, it'd be an awesome plan.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

I dont know, I thought about it but there's a lot of those sorts of religious communities which are populated exclusively by homosexuals and odd types of people. Otherwise sure, it'd be an awesome plan.

Sounds like the types who need to focus on prayer to overcome their lustful passions. A monastery is exactly where they should be if their aim is to grow spiritually and die to the world. The world instead welcomes sin as such as you describe, so why would they choose to die to it? Why go to a monastery unless to overcome sin and to climb the ladder to God sans worldly distractions?

 

[Lark]

In fairness, the narrator did more or less explain that the "new" and "alt" movements are just rebranding and repackaging of decades old ideologies.

I'm not sure its exactly that but I am interested in some sort of excavation or stripping away of the ideologies.

Personally, I think that there are themes which recur because human nature hasnt changed that much, but that is what's important, human essence and whether or not it matches human existence. I dont think there's any ideologies really which have really addressed that and not many philosophies or religions either.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm confused. At 1:13, what the hell is a "staged psychological operation"?

 

[Lark]

What the actual fu...

 

[Lark]

I'm confused. At 1:13, what the hell is a "staged psychological operation"?

My guess is someone being melodramatic AF whose actual day to day is pretty dull and uninteresting.

The whole perpetual mobilisation idea is an old, old fascist trope from the interwar years, arguably it began during WW1 or even earlier with the idea of total war during the Napoleonic wars.

 

[Lark]

Sounds like the types who need to focus on prayer to overcome their lustful passions. A monastery is exactly where they should be if their aim is to grow spiritually and die to the world. The world instead welcomes sin as such as you describe, so why would they choose to die to it? Why go to a monastery unless to overcome sin and to climb the ladder to God sans worldly distractions?

Yeah, that.

No, I dont know what the hell sort of an idea that is.

What I wish that western monasteries and monastic life where like is something much, much more like those in Asia and the buddhist examples to the world. Its always struck me that the western obsessions with sinful behaviour or sex and death are absent from the buddhist examples to the world, I'm not saying that buddhist examples are superior but the reality is that there is no vow of celibacy, for the most part, for buddhist monks, they just choose the spiritual and discipline focused lives to family life.

The west is just messed up in contrast.

In the west you have celibate or homosexual religious recommending heterosexual family life to the population at large, something they have sworn off but in direct contradistinction to the profiling of homosexuality by the political classes of much of Europe and the english speaking world, one way or another (the opposition to these trends is carried out in ways which none the less profile it and popularise it, whatever conservatives think they are doing). Its enough to make some of the more odd conspiracy theories seem credible.

Anyway, Asia could be the hope for the world. Again.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yeah, that.

No, I dont know what the hell sort of an idea that is.

What I wish that western monasteries and monastic life where like is something much, much more like those in Asia and the buddhist examples to the world. Its always struck me that the western obsessions with sinful behaviour or sex and death are absent from the buddhist examples to the world, I'm not saying that buddhist examples are superior but the reality is that there is no vow of celibacy, for the most part, for buddhist monks, they just choose the spiritual and discipline focused lives to family life.

The west is just messed up in contrast.

In the west you have celibate or homosexual religious recommending heterosexual family life to the population at large, something they have sworn off but in direct contradistinction to the profiling of homosexuality by the political classes of much of Europe and the english speaking world, one way or another (the opposition to these trends is carried out in ways which none the less profile it and popularise it, whatever conservatives think they are doing). Its enough to make some of the more odd conspiracy theories seem credible.

Anyway, Asia could be the hope for the world. Again.

I'd rather live in a Buddhist monastery but the Buddhists do have their own weird hangups about earthly pleasures. I remember an image of a poster in Thailand that showed a hugging couple, next to a skeleton, implying how that sort of love ultimately lead to death and suffering. That stuff is just as central to Buddhist dogma as it is to Judeo Christian religions. In some ways moreso, since the historical Buddha was said to have abandoned fatherhood and husbandhood for the pure, spiritual path to enlightenment, as if to imply one can only achieve salvation by avoiding all of the "earthly" fixations and pleasures.


There might be some exceptions, but generally speaking, those who enter Buddhist monasteries are subjected to many of the same restrictions as those in Catholic monasteries

 

[Lark]

I'd rather live in a Buddhist monastery but the Buddhists do have their own weird hangups about earthly pleasures. I remember an image of a poster in Thailand that showed a hugging couple, next to a skeleton, implying how that sort of love ultimately lead to death and suffering. That stuff is just as central to Buddhist dogma as it is to Judeo Christian religions. In some ways moreso, since the historical Buddha was said to have abandoned fatherhood and husbandhood for the pure, spiritual path to enlightenment, as if to imply one can only achieve salvation by avoiding all of the "earthly" fixations and pleasures.

I do think that if you have consciously avoid anything you are still attached to it and havent achieved the non-attachment which is supposedly the goal of a buddhist outlook and training.

I've no problem with the privileging of the life whose goal is non-attachment and which is the alternative to what Nietzsche called "life affirming" but its ill understood a lot of the time, the greatest advertisement for it should be the people happily living that way and not someone proselytizing about it. In all likelihood they are covering up for their private failings in some regard.

 

[Lark]

k. You're still falling into the dichotomous trap this thread was supposed to be avoiding. I can't fathom what homosexuality has to do with the new left/alt-right paradigm except as an ideological subset of the prior.

How so?

I mentioned it as you had took the detour into monasticism and I mentioned it in that respect.