• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Reasons to Believe organization

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
BTW, Crowsie, why did you want me to post a link to this site anyway?

...I'm thinking the original purpose here was lost a LOOOOOONG time ago...
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
BTW, Crowsie, why did you want me to post a link to this site anyway?

...I'm thinking the original purpose here was lost a LOOOOOONG time ago...

I thought people might enjoy looking at it. I thought it was a very well-done example of its ilk.

And, as I recall, my question was "Where should I put it," not "Would you please post this." :whistling:

The site reminded me of a scrap of TV show we saw when we were at the beach. The studio was filled with dinosaur replicas. Some fellow who could have contributed to R2B was waving a National Geographic magazine around and referring to it as propaganda.

Back in 1992, I picked up a newspaper that had a newly discovered Lagosuchus on the front page. This is a dino that could be a link between dinos and birds, so it was of great interest to me. I commented about it to the sales clerk who responded, "Do you really believe in evolution?"

That seemed like such a strange question. It still does. Every now and then I think, "One person's science is another person's speculation."

I still want to know how evolution skeptics explain fossils of things that well-predate records of humans. Does their divinity--like Loki--race around burying manufactured fossils to fool the non-believers? Or are the skeptics the fools, closing their minds to the evidence their deity has left?

On another level, is any of this pertinent to daily existence?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
And, as I recall, my question was "Where should I put it," not "Would you please post this." :whistling:

:p

I was showing initiative -- normally you get to decide where everything goes, and I don't take decisive action. <roll eyes> Well, I learned my lesson!

Actually, I think I did state the question correctly earlier in the thread... (You asked me, "Where should this go?")

I still want to know how evolution skeptics explain fossils of things that well-predate records of humans. Does their divinity--like Loki--race around burying manufactured fossils to fool the non-believers? Or are the skeptics the fools, closing their minds to the evidence their deity has left?

I think some of the exhibits in the new creationist museum mentioned some of their very vague theories on the matter. I haven't heard the "Dinosaur fossils are [fakes] planted by God [or whomever]!" theory for a long time, though, and then it was from the very fundamentalist groups.

I know in the 70's it was going around that human footprints and dinosaur footprints had been found in the same strata (suggesting they coexisted), but soon enough scientists noted that they were not human footprints at all, just misidentified. Some creationists STILL quote that as if it's true, but the more mainstream crowd is telling them to stop. In any case, that's simply one small example out of many to say that the creationist crowd is not even in agreement, there are various factions that all disagree with each other as well as those are not Christians.

I think the evolution skeptics more say that the skeletons certainly exist and are authentic; but they state that either the skeletons were of different species and that the species can't be shown to have descended from each other, or something similar ... basically, evolution is just a theory, and they find different criticisms of the mechanisms supposedly driving evolution.

(For example, some of those who BECAME the ID people said that gradual macro-evolution was impossible because too many body structures needed to evolve simultaneously, and the organism would have died without some of those structural changes occurring at once. This was before the theories of long periods of evolutionary stagnation occurred, then there'd be a cataclysmic change.)

In any case, I think the ID people say it's mere conjecture and not proven and doesn't make good betting odds. I think we will see a lot of changes over the next number of years due to our having mapped the human genome and simply being able to do remarkable amounts of DNA testing that were not possible previously. The public discussion seems to really trail science/cutting-edge thought by about 30 years, and it's not unusual to find Bible criticism documents or creationist "proof" documents that were written 70-80 years ago and debunked countless times already.

On another level, is any of this pertinent to daily existence?

In one sense, yes -- depending on where you came from, you might have a particular meaning to fulfill with your life.

In another sense, not really. We each have to make decisions based on what we value, and can do whatever we think is important, regardless of all these things.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
:p

I was showing initiative -- normally you get to decide where everything goes, and I don't take decisive action. <roll eyes> Well, I learned my lesson!
:hug: Silly J, I don't decide a whole lot, really. On the other hand, I have a thriving interest in information categorization and accessibility, so I tend to speak up faster on those topics.
Actually, I think I did state the question correctly earlier in the thread... (You asked me, "Where should this go?")
Fair enough. :D
I think some of the exhibits in the new creationist museum mentioned some of their very vague theories on the matter. I haven't heard the "Dinosaur fossils are [fakes] planted by God [or whomever]!" theory for a long time, though, and then it was from the very fundamentalist groups.
:shock: You've heard that one before? I thought hoped I was making it up. :huh:
...
In any case, I think the ID people say it's mere conjecture and not proven and doesn't make good betting odds. I think we will see a lot of changes over the next number of years due to our having mapped the human genome and simply being able to do remarkable amounts of DNA testing that were not possible previously. The public discussion seems to really trail science/cutting-edge thought by about 30 years, and it's not unusual to find Bible criticism documents or creationist "proof" documents that were written 70-80 years ago and debunked countless times already.
D'ya think that has anything to do with the pyramid effect, where the newest stuff takes a long time to reach the broadest dissemination? Or some other reason?
In one sense, yes -- depending on where you came from, you might have a particular meaning to fulfill with your life.

In another sense, not really. We each have to make decisions based on what we value, and can do whatever we think is important, regardless of all these things.
I recall Nicole Kidman, that renowned philosopher :dry:, said that her life became much simpler after she stopped asking, "Why?" That's another quote that I carry around with me. In moments of indecision, when I start falling down the Ti rabbit-hole, I ask myself if knowing "Why?" matters. If it will make less than 97% difference, I stop asking.
 

Opivy1980

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
138
MBTI Type
INTJ
I recall Nicole Kidman, that renowned philosopher :dry:, said that her life became much simpler after she stopped asking, "Why?" That's another quote that I carry around with me. In moments of indecision, when I start falling down the Ti rabbit-hole, I ask myself if knowing "Why?" matters. If it will make less than 97% difference, I stop asking.

Life is always simpler for people who don't question why. It is the eqivalent of giving up your humanity and reverting to a lower animal. Humans are the only creature known to question their environment. If I didn't question everything I encounter and make decisions based on answers I would have hoped someone would have shot me in the head.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
Life is always simpler for people who don't question why. It is the eqivalent of giving up your humanity and reverting to a lower animal. Humans are the only creature known to question their environment. If I didn't question everything I encounter and make decisions based on answers I would have hoped someone would have shot me in the head.

This is an occasion when asking "Why?" would have been a wise idea before posting.
295d1180118806-stupid-flammatory-type-bias-questions-poke.gif
 

Opivy1980

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
138
MBTI Type
INTJ
This is an occasion when asking "Why?" would have been a wise idea before posting.
295d1180118806-stupid-flammatory-type-bias-questions-poke.gif

I was refering to Nichole Kidman's comment not yours. I meant people who never question not people who question, but don't vocalize it.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
:shock: You've heard that one before? I thought hoped I was making it up. :huh:

Sigh. Where's that "sad banana" smiley, I think I need it...

Yes, there is a lot of gobbledy-gook out there. When my MIL's father died, he left behind many books of that sort of thinking, things published in the 60's or early 70's. And unfortunately, my MIL's brother (my UIL?) absorbed all that; he worked many years as a CEO for various companies and was very competent, but in the area of creation science, well... his knowledge was very limited. I don't discuss those things with him, it's pointless. :(

D'ya think that has anything to do with the pyramid effect, where the newest stuff takes a long time to reach the broadest dissemination? Or some other reason?

I don't really know. I haven't observed it in other settings, which might help me see a pattern. My guess is that there is a buffer zone out there -- that the items trickle down through the few people of curious bent enough to explore them, and then hit the wall because it's so hard to make headway against a faith system that predetermines what information is acceptable and what information is discounted immediately.

And it goes both ways: The religious people won't buy into the ideas until they see that their beliefs won't be challenged, while the skeptics who are offended by the religious people (and in essence just end up reacting/pushing back against the belief system, rather than necessarily building their own) then put together all of their arguments against those positions (silly or not) and recycle their OWN collection of ammunition. Both sides are entrenched, and new information is not permitted inside.

I recall Nicole Kidman, that renowned philosopher :dry:,

Yes, she's wonderful, isn't she? :D

Wonderful actor (INFJ?)...and beautiful too.

said that her life became much simpler after she stopped asking, "Why?" That's another quote that I carry around with me. In moments of indecision, when I start falling down the Ti rabbit-hole, I ask myself if knowing "Why?" matters. If it will make less than 97% difference, I stop asking.

Yes, there's something to be said about that. We only have so much mental bandwidth, especially as we get older and have more information to deal with and more responsibilities to juggle. Pragmatism and prioritization is important for maintaining sanity...

Life is always simpler for people who don't question why. It is the eqivalent of giving up your humanity and reverting to a lower animal. Humans are the only creature known to question their environment. If I didn't question everything I encounter and make decisions based on answers I would have hoped someone would have shot me in the head.

You live such a violent life... (lol)

Seriously, yes, question everything and let curiosity drive you; but eventually (and maybe it's part of getting decrepit like me) you only have so much energy and time to really chase things down.

For example, I'd love to read more extensively about the topics we've discussed today, but based on my energy level, relational responsibilities, and other things, I have to prioritize my focus. So squeeze in things here and there, but unfortunately not enough room to be an expert on everything... I still have tons of books stacked here that I haven't opened yet, that I thought would be interesting to read. :(
 

reason

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,209
MBTI Type
ESFJ
This is the only question I would like answered:

If A is a set of religious statements, then what can you tell me about any x, where x is an element of A?​

I cannot think of anything which could be reliably inferred from the simple fact that A is a set of religious statements, or at least anything which might be useful in demarcating religious statements from nonreligious statements.

The same does not hold for science:

If B is a set of scientific statements, then what can you tell me about any x, where x is an element of B?​

From this we can reliably infer that x has empirical content, or is nontautological i.e. falsifiable. That is the way we demarcate between scientific and nonscientific theories, in that scientific theories can be criticised in a manner which nonscientific theories cannot, that is by experiment and observation.

As far as I can tell, to say that set A is a set of religious statements tells us absolutely nothing about any element of A, since whatever criterion we adopt, such as 'not reality-based,' 'concerning the supernatural,' or 'nonscientific,' we end up permitting into set A, too much, or too little.

For example, 'nonscientific' permits far too much, since all of mathematics and metaphysics, including metascience would be classed as religoius. Whereas 'not reality-based' permits too little, since almost all traditional religions make very strong claims about what reality is like, indeed one of the hallmarks of such traditions is that all facts confirm the theory.

I am beginning to believe that the word "religion" is quite superfluous, and without any meaningful content. It has no significance except that which people treat it, but is otherwise quite arbitrary. Somewhat like the emporers new clothes, it carries around a mystique, as though it refers to something important, but upon closer scrutiny there simply does not seem to be anything there.

If this is true, then Gould's notion that religion and science occupy nonoverlapping majisteria is actually accurate, but only because religion has no majisteria to speak of. The guys at Reasons to Believe actually have it right in this regard, even if they have it severely and most spectacularly wrong in almsot every other.
 

Opivy1980

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
138
MBTI Type
INTJ
Sigh. Where's that "sad banana" smiley, I think I need it...

Yes, there is a lot of gobbledy-gook out there. When my MIL's father died, he left behind many books of that sort of thinking, things published in the 60's or early 70's. And unfortunately, my MIL's brother (my UIL?) absorbed all that; he worked many years as a CEO for various companies and was very competent, but in the area of creation science, well... his knowledge was very limited. I don't discuss those things with him, it's pointless. :(



I don't really know. I haven't observed it in other settings, which might help me see a pattern. My guess is that there is a buffer zone out there -- that the items trickle down through the few people of curious bent enough to explore them, and then hit the wall because it's so hard to make headway against a faith system that predetermines what information is acceptable and what information is discounted immediately.

And it goes both ways: The religious people won't buy into the ideas until they see that their beliefs won't be challenged, while the skeptics who are offended by the religious people (and in essence just end up reacting/pushing back against the belief system, rather than necessarily building their own) then put together all of their arguments against those positions (silly or not) and recycle their OWN collection of ammunition. Both sides are entrenched, and new information is not permitted inside.



Yes, she's wonderful, isn't she? :D

Wonderful actor (INFJ?)...and beautiful too.



Yes, there's something to be said about that. We only have so much mental bandwidth, especially as we get older and have more information to deal with and more responsibilities to juggle. Pragmatism and prioritization is important for maintaining sanity...



You live such a violent life... (lol)

Seriously, yes, question everything and let curiosity drive you; but eventually (and maybe it's part of getting decrepit like me) you only have so much energy and time to really chase things down.

For example, I'd love to read more extensively about the topics we've discussed today, but based on my energy level, relational responsibilities, and other things, I have to prioritize my focus. So squeeze in things here and there, but unfortunately not enough room to be an expert on everything... I still have tons of books stacked here that I haven't opened yet, that I thought would be interesting to read. :(

I am actually running out of reading material exact opposite problem
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am actually running out of reading material exact opposite problem

Well -- then it's time for you to either expand the topics/viewpoints that you read about... or else go outside more. :)
 

Opivy1980

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
138
MBTI Type
INTJ
Well -- then it's time for you to either expand the topics/viewpoints that you read about... or else go outside more. :)

No I can't afford more books to read at work, that was my point, I need to get some extra cash so I can buy some more.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am slightly rearranging your post in order to clarify some of your terminology:

If this is true, then Gould's notion that religion and science occupy nonoverlapping majisteria is actually accurate, but only because religion has no majisteria to speak of. The guys at Reasons to Believe actually have it right in this regard, even if they have it severely and most spectacularly wrong in almsot every other.

Majisteria -- I am guessing the "territory over which something reigns or describes authoritatively"? Or something like that? (I looked it up online and it's not a commonly used word, and I haven't read the Gould text...)


From this we can reliably infer that x has empirical content, or is nontautological i.e. falsifiable. That is the way we demarcate between scientific and nonscientific theories, in that scientific theories can be criticised in a manner which nonscientific theories cannot, that is by experiment and observation.

Yes. Scientific theories are falsifiable, religious revelation is not.

For example, even if we could prove (through evidence) that Jesus said and did everything the Gospels say he said and did, that still says nothing about whether his CLAIMS were actually true. [Was he REALLY God's son? Could he forgive sin? Was he sent as a prophet and messiah? And so forth...]

We have no way of testing his claims, even if we know for sure he made them. The religious truth must either be accepted or rejected.

As an aside, I think at best religious thought aspires to "pattern recognition." People seem to accept the religious proposition based on whether the pattern it touts as true aligns with patterns they themselves have experienced in their lives. So religious belief is based really on inference and projection (if not direct internalized experience or reaction to experience).

I am beginning to believe that the word "religion" is quite superfluous, and without any meaningful content.

In terms of saying something definite/clear about the world (?). Yes, in terms of being compared to the scientific method, it is rather illusory. There's nothing for us to get our hands on.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,258
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
No I can't afford more books to read at work, that was my point, I need to get some extra cash so I can buy some more.

It's too bad most of the public libraries don't seem to stock heavy-duty specialty titles and focus more on the popularized things (probably due to budget constraints). Otherwise the library would be a good option for just devouring everything in sight.

Sometimes I go to Borders, grab interesting books, and sit down and read parts of them to see if they're worth purchasing. Maybe that's a variation of the "Poor Person's Book Exchange."

I do sometimes find great deals for titles online (used books on amazon, half.com, bookfinder, etc.) Those $20-25 books sometimes can be found for $5 (including s/h) on those services.
 

Opivy1980

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
138
MBTI Type
INTJ
It's too bad most of the public libraries don't seem to stock heavy-duty specialty titles and focus more on the popularized things (probably due to budget constraints). Otherwise the library would be a good option for just devouring everything in sight.

Sometimes I go to Borders, grab interesting books, and sit down and read parts of them to see if they're worth purchasing. Maybe that's a variation of the "Poor Person's Book Exchange."

I do sometimes find great deals for titles online (used books on amazon, half.com, bookfinder, etc.) Those $20-25 books sometimes can be found for $5 (including s/h) on those services.

I live in a college town so there are no shortage of book stores that are cheap, I just am flat broke right now and this wasn't a good time to run out.
 

reason

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,209
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Jennifer,

First, the word is spelled 'magisteria,' not 'majisteria.' My mistake.

Now, I think you missed the point by paying too much attention to my science example. If I say that B is a set of scientific statements, you can reliably infer that those statements are consistent and nontaulogical. If I say that A is a set of religious statements, then there does not seem to be anything which can be reliably inferred from that.

The semantic content of the word 'religion' is empty, it doesn't actually mean anything. Its only significance is that with which people treat it, but we treat it with significance only because everyone else treats it with significance, and so everyone must continue to treat it with significance, even though it doesn't actually mean anything.

1) One socalled religious belief is that God created the universe about 6000 years ago, and that all evidence to the contrary, from fossils to distant stars, has been placed there by God as a test of our faith. This belief is unscientific i.e. it is immune from empirical refutation, not only is every recorded fact consistent with the belief, but every possible recordable fact is consistent with it.

It has been noted by many that socalled religious beliefs are often unscientific, since the beliefs are structured in such a way as to immunise them from empirical refutation. It is not so much that they can't be "proven," but rather that they are always "proven," no matter what. The problem is that irreconcilable beliefs in God are similarly "proven" by exactly the same evidence, so no number of experiments could help us decide whether the Christian God or Allah is the one true God, nor that God exists at all.

So, we might try and say about set A, the set of religious statements, that every element of A is epirically untestable, in contrast to set B, where every element of B was epirically testable. However, this will not do. It may be a common characteristic of socalled religious beliefs that they are empirically untestable, but then that is a characteristic shared by the whole of mathematics, philosophy, metaphysics, and even metascience, yet few would consider those disciplines religious.

Furthermore, just because many socalled religious beliefs are empirically untestable, does not mean that all religious beliefs are empirically untestable, and indeed the belief that God created the universe 6000 years ago is extremely testable, it is only untestable when butressed with the belief that all evidence to the contrary was planted by God to test our faith. Though not everybody who believes the former necessarily believes the latter, and a great many people do actually revise their beliefs in the light of empirical evidence to the contrary.

2) So, we might say that set A is a set of revelatory beliefs, but then that would make nonrevelatory beliefs nonreligious, but the vast majority of beliefs seem to me to be traditions, passed on by the written or spoken word down generations. What about those socalled religions where leaders have a monopoly on revelation, and simply pass these revelations onto followers, are these followers nonreligious because they have no revelations?

In fact, what might we make of revelations people claim to have had concerning science, philosophy or math, was Descartes 'corgito ergo sum' a revelation, and therefore religious?

3) Another contender is faith though for this we have to change our set A, so it is no longer a set of religious statements, but a set of religious people. Here 'faith' is used to mean dogmatic or fideistic belief, and is irrational (i.e. uncritical). This idea is that religiosity is not a property of statements, but an attitude of people, so a belief is religious if it is held with an unflinching and irrational faith.

However, again we can only conclude that this is also inadquate, since it is quite possible to believe in almost all the teachings of the Bible and not be dogmatic about any of it, though under this definition, our hypothetical nondogmatic Christian, a church goer who sincerely believes in Christ is nonreligious. For an example of such an attitude, check out Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis.

Conversely, there are many logicians and scientists who are dogmatically committed to the authority of senseobservation, or logical axioms. These people, who are often atheist, have faith no less powerful than a true believer of Mohammed or Christ.


There are more possible demarcations, but every one I entertain leads to a similar situation. It seems that from set A, we can conclude that they are either scientific or unscientific, dogmatic or undogmatic, rational or irrational, revelatory or nonrevelatory, concerning God or not conerning God, moral or immoral, etc. In other words, we can conclude absolutely bugger all.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
1,555
MBTI Type
type
It's too bad most of the public libraries don't seem to stock heavy-duty specialty titles and focus more on the popularized things (probably due to budget constraints). Otherwise the library would be a good option for just devouring everything in sight.
Interlibrary loan. :D
I do sometimes find great deals for titles online (used books on amazon, half.com, bookfinder, etc.) Those $20-25 books sometimes can be found for $5 (including s/h) on those services.
Yes--that would be my other suggestion.

My reading speed has increased to the point that I can often read a book at Borders, taking notes in my pocket Moleskine. If I find myself wanting to make more than a handful of notes or annotations, then I look at the used bookstores.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Hmm reading this I can't believe I missed such a good scrap. I like OpIvy. Nothing personal to anyone who may have felt the razors edge but I do like the style. Very INTJ.

AS for Science versus Religion, would not the primary difference lie within that Science is attempting to move itself forward via scientists where as Religion is trying to move the religious forwards (that's forwards in terms of progression measured via each disciplines internal values, aims and criteria) ?

Aside from that I'm with Lee. Both use assumptions and institutionalised truths (that's bad wording but vocab fails me at the moment so apologies to any who find that particular phraseology offensive) to produce their next "conclusion". I think that this is the human facet shining through the differences however.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Isolated remarks on philosophy of religion

Most dead ends in philosophical discussions are the consequence of errors in communication.

To avoid this, I suggest we are clear about what we mean with the words that we use.

This is what I mean when I say religion: A cosmological system that addresses the issues concerning eschatology and regards at least some of its doctrines or axioms as incontrovertible.

The salient difference between religion and philosophy is that the former makes itself immune from criticism by deeming parts of its essence by definition inerrant. Hence, a religious philosophy can not be refuted because of this, yet an ordinary philosophy can be because it makes no claims to inerrancy and relies on reason alone for legitimation.

We should be well advised to rely on nothing but reason to discover how the world works because otherwise we do not have a way of knowing how reliable our knowledge is--as at least we would need to utilize our cognitive faculties to assess reliability of our sources.

Galileo once said that the Bible teaches only how to go to Heaven and not how the Heavens move. Hence the religious teaching is not about how the world works, it is about what we must do with the world and what may happen after our biological death. When interpreting scripture reason should hold primacy over revelation and statements that run contrary to reason should be interpreted allegorically for the sake of an abductive argument.(Best possible explanation)


For the sake of the argument we can think of science as synonymous with philosophy. Or any intellectual enterprise that insists on Socratic inquiry, using reason alone to figure out what is true. A congenial religion is within the province of reason, or the province of science, if you will--or the endeavor of attempting to make sense of the world and thereafter.

Not only is it false that science and religion are mutually exclusive, but they are inseparable. Religious revelation needs science (reason) in order to meet its purpose (help man reach his potential, suggest how a life is best lived--this is the primary goal of religious revelation) and science, if sensitive to its own limitations will be open to religious input. As after all..otherwise it would be forced to pass the questions of eschatology in silence...perhaps the most important questions of all in its ubiquitous empire.

I am in process of writing a book in the field where I argue the thesis that philosophy(science) and religion are inseparable. I maintain that nothing escapes the province of philosophy, not even religion, as we all seek to understand the world--everybody uses reason in an endeavor to understand the world, just some abuse it more than others. (Hence if you say that revelation is superior to reason, its not that you're not using reason--you're just abusing it, you're making the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority--claiming that your source is correct without showing why it is correct.)Verily builds religion its citadel in the heart of philosophy's province as we speak! Would be foolish of us not to acknowledge this as fear of our own demise is one of the salient, if not the salient drive behind our philosophizing...
 
Top