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Thoughts about Scientology?

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Actually, further research reveals that L. Ron Hubbard did write an unproduced screenplay about the Xenu, so perhaps the vehicles and clothes and all the other things that look like Earth were in fact developed with budgetary limitations in mind. I may have to walk that particular criticism back.

There are copies of this thing floating around the internet. Maybe I can give it a whirl and let you guys know what I find.

I actually started researching Scientology this evening, before I even saw this thread, strangely enough. I hope it's not because my body thetans are messing with my operating thetan. (Yes, there are evidently two different types of thetans, and the difference between them is crucial, people.)
 

Obfuscate

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Actually, further research (which I was started conducting on this topic this evening, before I even saw this thread, strangely enough; I hope it's not my body thetans messing with me) reveals that L. Ron Hubbard did write an unproduced screenplay about the Xenu, so perhaps the vehicles and clothes and all the other things that look like Earth were in fact developed with budgetary limitations in mind. I may have to walk that particular criticism back.

There are copies of this thing floating around the internet. Maybe I can give it a whirl and let you guys know what I find.

I actually started researching Scientology this evening, before I even saw this thread, strangely enough. I hope it's not because my body thetans are messing with my operating thetan. (Yes, there are evidently two different types of thetans, and the difference between them is crucial people.)

i am sure xenu designed his spaceships to look like this by coincidence, and that the screenplay would clear up any confusion...

800px-Douglas_DC-8-51_N8008D_TIA_LGW_23.07.66_edited-4.jpg
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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i am sure xenu designed his spaceships to look like this by coincidence, and that the screenplay would clear up any confusion...

800px-Douglas_DC-8-51_N8008D_TIA_LGW_23.07.66_edited-4.jpg


The explanation Scientology gives for this is that the body thetans have infested our subconscious with memories of their imprisonment and genocide ( a similar explanation exists for the presence of all non-Scientology religions), therefore resulting in modern vehicle designs matching exactly the tools Xenu used for his nefarious deeds.
 

Obfuscate

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The explanation Scientology gives for this is that the body thetans have infested our subconscious with memories of their imprisonment and genocide ( a similar explanation exists for the presence of all non-Scientology religions), therefore resulting in modern vehicle designs matching exactly the tools Xenu used for his nefarious deeds.

i know, but acknowledging that wasn't funny, and ignored the impracticality of using a craft of that design to exit and reenter an atmosphere...
 

Mole

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We take our own religion for granted but other religions seem ridiculous.
 

Litvyak

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I wish you would stop considering infantile generalisations such as "all religions are x" a sign of intellectual superiority. This is what basement-dwelling, fedora-wearing faux intellectuals do.

Scientology is a cult where "elite" members work for 12 hours a day and get paid 25$ a week in order to participate in a pompous pseudomilitary organisation led by a midget with a superiority complex, who literally keeps beating people with sticks and does not hesitate to use torture or physical coercion if members refuse to sign so-called "billion-year contracts" to pledge their next, say, fifty lives to a bunch of lunatics who claim your migraine is caused by a soul stuck in your body, a leftover from a calamity triggered by an intergalactic overlord who exploded an atom bomb in a volcano some 75m years ago.
They force members of the church to separate from non-members to the point of no contact, causing families to fall apart. They also claim shooting someone in the head is a perfectly normal way of "curing" the person and lament how unfortunate it is that such methods are held in contempt by society. Oh, they also claim that by completing 15 levels of auditing, you will be able to create your own universe, manipulate people's thoughts and leave your body or even time and space itself. You better pay up.

So yeah, if you still believe this is just like how the Catholic church or Jewish communities operate, kindly get the fuck out.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I don't know what you mean by 'seemed to get very defensive', but it seems to be stated in a derogatory light.

If that's how you want to interpret it.

And if you're referring to my response to people who say that 'nothing I say should be believed', then do you think there's a better way I could have responded? In my experience these types of personal attacks are usually last resorts when people don't have a legitimate argument to make, and if calling them out for it makes it seem like I'm 'very defensive' then I don't know what to tell you.

You asked for people's opinion on a religion. You have to expect that you're going to hear opinions you don't like, that may seem derogatory toward your religion, which is why I asked you why you even bothered asking for opinions. You have every right to be defensive of your religion, just don't expect this sort of discussion to always go how you'd like. This is why religion tends to be a touchy subject and a lot of people will avoid bringing it up. It's inevitable people will disagree and feathers will get ruffled.

I don't think some of the arguments made against it are any less legitimate than the arguments you've made for it. Your biggest reasons/defenses so far seem to be referencing how Hubbard holds a record for most published author, therefore you chose not to summarize the belief system, instead saying religion is very open to interpretation. Fair enough, I'd agree, but if you aren't willing to dig in and really explain your own side, is it fair to expect more from those people in disagreement with you? When asked about the aliens, you sort of deflected and said it was no more ridiculous than beliefs held in other religions. Again, fair enough, but it's not really a real argument, more like a "yeah, but" defense, which suggests a lack of conviction or understanding in your own side of this. Don't demand deep, constructive criticisms/opinions of scientology if you aren't willing to provide deep, constructive defenses and instead only want to whine about how everyone is piling on and bashing it in a thread you started. You more or less invited this. Maybe you should have started a blog dedicated to the subject, where you could really elaborate, then let people chime in as they see fit.

Some people really love to manipulate themselves and others into situations where they can play the victim. I get it, I've been there, it can feel good in a weird, self-abusive way, but it's addictive and counter-productive, and is a temporary high that will leave you feeling empty.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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i know, but acknowledging that wasn't funny, and ignored the impracticality of using a craft of that design to exit and reenter an atmosphere...
It only seems that way to Suppressive Persons, though.
 

Deprecator

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Just addressing the bolded part.

Islam is the world's fastest growing religion
Sure. But if it was founded thousands of years ago then I'd be hard pressed to label Islam as a modern religion. If you want to say that any religion that exists is by definition modern, then there was no point in me attaching the label to begin with.

34 of the largest Disaster Relief Organizations
How many of these organizations are independent and don't receive federal funding?

You're so blinded with your attempt to discredit verifiable facts that you're conveniently over looking the details that I initially presented.

but take a look at how many books were sold.
Thankfully I never said anything about book sales, just like I never said that Scientology was the fastest growing religion and neither did I say that it was the largest disaster relief organization in the world.

Nice try though.
 

Deprecator

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You asked for people's opinion on a religion.
And in turn people gave their opinions about me personally.

When asked about the aliens, you sort of deflected and said it was no more ridiculous than beliefs held in other religions. Again, fair enough, but it's not really a real argument,
The argument is that Scientology is held to a different standard than other religions; it is the only one that I know of that is publicly mocked for its theology, while Christianity, Islam and other religions get a free pass. You're more than welcome to claim that this isn't a 'real argument', but last I checked you've provided no metric whatsoever that would help distinguish the 'real arguments' from the 'fake ones.'

Don't demand deep, constructive criticisms/opinions of scientology
Would you mind quoting this so-called "deep, constructive criticism/ opinions of Scientology?" Because from my perspective, I'm actually still waiting for this to happen. So far all I'm reading is that "Scientology is a scam because it makes money, which is wrong for Scientology to do but perfectly okay for other religions to do, because Scientology has aliens and that's so much more ridiculous than a guy living inside a whale's stomach for 3 days. Oh, and a small minority of people who end up leaving Scientology after 30 years speak negatively about it, so there's that too."

Apparently you think that this criticism is 'super deep,' but that my arguments to defend it, while fair, are still 'not real'.
 

Deprecator

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You either avoid hard questions about scientology
What 'hard question' about Scientology did you want me to address? Because I'll happily address it if you want to ask.

And for the record, if all you want to do is ask me about my personal financial situation then I don't consider it to be a 'hard' question about Scientology.

or you engage in blatant deceit.

You couldn't answer my question truthfully so you manipulated my question to lower the standard to a level where the CoS could meet it.

The full quote was:

"Anyone is welcome to my denomination's national conference and all voting and passage of rules, statements, and other sorts of decisions are completely transparent. Can you say the same thing about the church of scientology?"

You took out the section about transparent voting and decision making because there is nothing transparent about the CoS and certainly nothing transparent about the way it makes decisions and acts as an organization.
You're right in a way. My response to your quote was biased because I used your response to address another person's claim that it was 'so expensive to be a Scientologist', and so I cut part of your quote out to emphasize the fact that many facets of Scientology are in fact 100% free. In hindsight this was perhaps unfair of me to do so, so allow me to make amends by directly addressing the rest of your quote which I now leave unadulterated.

Apparently you place very high value regarding the 'transparency of rules, statements and other decisions' within your (non-specified) religion, which is all well and good. Though part of the problem with addressing your claim is that as far as Scientology is concerned, I wouldn't say that there's any 'rule' per se, so much as there might be guidelines or suggestions that people are welcome to follow. When I attend meetings and discuss with other members about the teachings of LRH, I'm not conscious or worried about any 'rule, decision or transparency within my religion's hierarchy'; I'm merely focused on the overall message that Scientology provides to me personally.

I'm given the opportunity to share my interpretation of the teachings of LRH, and even if another member provides an alternative interpretation, I still respect that belief even if it's not 100% consistent with my own.

And speaking of the message that Scientology provides, we try to emphasize that we should be accepting of people with different beliefs than our own, be it different interpretations of LRH or a different belief set entirely. Clearly your own religion does not preach such tolerance and acceptance of other people's beliefs. After all, all I had to do was honestly state that my experiences with Scientology have been positive before you viciously attack me personally with claims that nobody should believe anything I say, and all while wanting to emphasize just how 'open minded' you think you are.
 

Madboot

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Sure. But if it was founded thousands of years ago then I'd be hard pressed to label Islam as a modern religion. If you want to say that any religion that exists is by definition modern, then there was no point in me attaching the label to begin with.


How many of these organizations are independent and don't receive federal funding?

You're so blinded with your attempt to discredit verifiable facts that you're conveniently over looking the details that I initially presented.


Thankfully I never said anything about book sales, just like I never said that Scientology was the fastest growing religion and neither did I say that it was the largest disaster relief organization in the world.

Nice try though.

No you didn't directly, but you were trying to present these points in such a way as to make them sound more impressive than they actually are. Scientology is the fastest growing modern religion? Who is the competition? And don't point out groups that essentially newer sects of older faiths. They don't receive federal funding to help with disaster relief? Then I would say they are missing an opportunity to help more. I am not blind on this subject, but I do believe you do not wish to listen to other peoples opinions on the subject unless they agree with your own.
 

Nomendei

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I don’t know much about scientology, and have never had personal experience with them. I just saw a documentary from the scientific and cultural german show Galileo. All I can say with what I learned is that they are freaking craaaazzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
 

Deprecator

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lol. If a particular school of thought has helped you experience some sort of mind blowing epiphany then by all means feel free to share it with the rest of us.
 
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