Thoughts about Scientology?

[Deprecator]

but what are these thoughts of hubbards ? what is the summary of his work

Hubbard holds the Guinness book of world records for the most published author of all time, and to be clear I'm not saying this to try and oversell him as an individual so much as I'm saying this to point out that there is a legitimate limitation for the task of trying to 'summarize' his work within the context of a post on this thread. Also, just like the Bible or the Koran, there are a multitude of interpretations of the works that can vary significantly. For an example, a number of eastern religions/ philosophies tend to droll on and on upon the notion that 'life is suffering', and my interpretation of Hubbard's works seemingly pokes fun of this philosophy by showcasing that life can be funny, entertaining and uplifting, which was always my reaction when reading his books.

can you list some of the enriching life benefits and up lifting qualities that you have seen given your exposure to scientology.

I could, but I think this would be more appropriate for a blog than this thread. As far as this thread is concerned, I'm not trying to "sell" Scientology onto others by listing my positive experiences so much as I want to explore other people's thoughts/ experiences with it. And so far people's views on Scientology have been overwhelmingly negative, and because this is so contradictory to my own experiences I would love to learn more about why this would be the case. Is it just more people blindly believing everything the mainstream media tells them without bothering to read a single book written by L. Ron Hubbard or is there any legitimacy to their views?

where the fuck are the aliens

What do you mean? It's no small secret that aliens exist within the theology of Scientology, but I don't see how this theology would be any more far-fetched from the theology of other mainstreamed religions, in which humans would live for hundreds of years, people would live inside whales or global floods would wipe out all life except for 2 of every animal that managed to survive on an arc. Do all Christians/ Muslims harbor a literal interpretation of this theology or might there also be some who hold a figurative interpretation instead?

Attacking the theology of Scientology receives no apparent political backlash, which is strange because if the creators of south park instead chose to attack the theology of Islam then I can only imagine how they would have been branded as 'islamaphobic'. Double standard much?

 

[Beorn]

blah blah blah

I have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years on this forum discussing the merits and problems of various religious and philosophical beliefs in depth.
I'm very open minded in my ability and desire to talk about almost any belief system.
I won't do that with you because there is no depth to Scientology and as a belief system it barely ranks above a literal belief in the flying spaghetti monster.
It is a racket and that is all it is.

I would encourage other people to not engage in debate on this topic as it can only help in the spread of a scam.
I hope to see this thread die soon.

I wish you well and I hope you will soon see the deceit in scientology.

 

[Deprecator]

I have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years on this forum discussing the merits and problems of various religious and philosophical beliefs in depth.

Such an intriguing anecdote to start off with after literally quoting me for "blah blah blah". And out of curiosity, with these other discussions that you've readily claimed to participate in for 10 years, do you readily accuse people of being dishonest for non-specified reasons or are you finally willingly to admit that you're uniquely prejudiced against Scientology?

Which is a bit ironic considering that you self-identify as an individual who's "open minded and willing to talk about any belief system", unless of course it's about philosophies that you've chosen to disagree with for reasons you're not willing to disclose, in which case your response seems limited to unsubstantiated assaults upon a person's credibility.

I hope to see this thread die soon.

Under ordinary circumstances I'd make a genuine inquire as to why you felt this why, but it's obvious now that you're not remotely interested in any meaningful discussion; it seems that you instead just want to resort to ad hominems, quote me for "blah blah blah", while feeling the need to emphasize (seemingly to yourself) about how "open minded" you are.

Which is certainly your prerogative if that's what you want. But at the same time I must say that, for all the 'deceit' that you're choosing to imagine that Scientology incorporates, you seem selectively ignorant of the fact that there's no greater deceit than the type of deceit that an individual chooses to inflict upon themselves.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think it’s very cult like and I also think Hubbard may have been a very sick, abusive man who used his charisma to draw people into his cult.

To some extent, most organized religions are just as guilty of taking money from their followers so I agree it’s unfair Scientology gets singled out in that regard.

I don’t know, I just roll with the Tao. You should read the Tao Te Ching

 

[Beorn]

To some extent, most organized religions are just as guilty of taking money from their followers so I agree it’s unfair Scientology gets singled out in that regard.

Church of Scientology is a single entity that maintains tight control over members and it's public perception (to the extent it can).
That's different from a broad religion that's existed over a long period of time and manifests in a number of traditions and institutions.

They deserve to be singled out just as much as any other singular religious institution that's an outright scam. Jesse Duplantis seems to be the best "christian" example for today: This televangelist is asking his followers to buy him a $54 million private jet - CNN

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

To OP, I guess I'll say this, You are very defensive and I have a feeling you expected you'd meet a lot of resistance in starting this thread. Are you completely secure in your beliefs as a scientologist, or are you questioning? Perhaps you are questioning the legitimacy of scientology indirectly, without realizing your faith in it isn't secure; denial is a powerful thing and the faithful have an interesting way of expressing their own doubt when they aren't comfortable admitting it openly, sometimes seeking confirmation from others, and becoming very defensive when they don't get that external confirmation. That's the vibe I get when I see this sort of question asked and the subsequent defensive reactions to others' doubt; if you're really secure and happy in your belief system, then you shouldn't give two flips what some doubting Thomas types say to you, yet you do seem to care a lot about what they're saying, almost as though their skepticism and doubtfulness will lead to your own drift from true believer status.

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

Don't have much time so I'll just leave this here ... an ex-Sea Org-member explaining problems and the troublesome inner workings of Scientology: "Scientology is Not a Religion. Period." and "Why people leave Scientology" - you can find those vids under the spoiler.

This channel is a rabbit hole. You can find pretty much everything about this cult there and why it's no good.

 

[Deprecator]

if you're really secure and happy in your belief system, then you shouldn't give two flips what some doubting Thomas types say to you, yet you do seem to care a lot about what they're saying, almost as though their skepticism and doubtfulness will lead to your own drift from true believer status.

I find Scientology to be an interesting subject; I like discussing it and I like reading other people's views on it. I hadn't realized that engaging in a dialogue by soliciting for other people's views on the matter, and then addressing why I might agree or disagree with those views, would be interpreted as some indicator of 'secret doubt' on my part. If I make a thread about evolution (another topic I find interesting), and I try addressing some of the critics who say that "evolution can't exist without explaining how life initially formed" or that "evolution can't exist because there's no way humans came from monkeys", then would it also seem like their skepticism and doubtfulness might lead to me drifting away from my 'believer' status?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I find Scientology to be an interesting subject; I like discussing it and I like reading other people's views on it. I hadn't realized that engaging in a dialogue by soliciting for other people's views on the matter, and then addressing why I might agree or disagree with those views, would be interpreted as some indicator of 'secret doubt' on my part. If I make a thread about evolution (another topic I find interesting), and I try addressing some of the critics who say that "evolution can't exist without explaining how life initially formed" or that "evolution can't exist because there's no way humans came from monkeys", then would it also seem like their skepticism and doubtfulness might lead to me drifting away from my 'believer' status?

I only made that observation because you seemed to get very defensive when some people solicited opinions that they felt Scientology was a fraud or scam.

 

[Forever]

Scientology leads one to believe in god at lower tiers then “illuminates” the peoples minds after a certain level and much money wasted that there is no God.

One of the worst “religions” out there, if not the worst speaking for the members alone.

 

[ceecee]

Church of Scientology is a single entity that maintains tight control over members and it's public perception (to the extent it can).
That's different from a broad religion that's existed over a long period of time and manifests in a number of traditions and institutions.

They deserve to be singled out just as much as any other singular religious institution that's an outright scam. Jesse Duplantis seems to be the best "christian" example for today: This televangelist is asking his followers to buy him a $54 million private jet - CNN

Yeah I would love to know how much the OP has paid the Church of Scientology.

 

[Stanton Moore]

A tag team of trolls has strong-armed this thread.

 

[Beorn]

A tag team of trolls has strong-armed this thread.

 

[Deprecator]

I only made that observation because you seemed to get very defensive when some people solicited opinions that they felt Scientology was a fraud or scam.

I don't know what you mean by 'seemed to get very defensive', but it seems to be stated in a derogatory light. And if you're referring to my response to people who say that 'nothing I say should be believed', then do you think there's a better way I could have responded? In my experience these types of personal attacks are usually last resorts when people don't have a legitimate argument to make, and if calling them out for it makes it seem like I'm 'very defensive' then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Deprecator]

Yeah I would love to know how much the OP has paid the Church of Scientology.

Really?? Well in my defense you've never bothered me to ask me personally, and I also had no way of knowing that my personal financial affairs would spark such interest for you. Would your views on the subject change at all if I provided you with an honest answer? Because if you're merely going to ignore everything that doesn't reaffirm your previously held beliefs then it suggests you're not really open to a discussion on the issue.

 

[Deprecator]

Have you seen the aforementioned documentary, Going Clear? If so, how much of it does it get right and how much of it does it get wrong? What are some common perceptions of Scientology you think are wrong?

Looking forward to your response

Greetings, friend.

I have absolutely seen the documentary, and if I recall correctly there were many testimonies from former members who had negative experiences. While it's difficult to directly contest their authenticity, at the same time I can safely say that these 'negative experiences' reported by disgruntled members aren't remotely consistent with my own experiences, and I also must say that these types of scandals and abuses of power are not remotely exclusive to Scientology. For an example, last I checked the military is notorious for an endless series of abuses of power and scandals alike, resulting in all sorts of heinous atrocities such as rape, torture and death (i.e. drill sergeants literally forcing cadets into dryers). These negative experiences don't take away from the fact that, although the military would certainly not be for everyone, many people can still benefit enormously from their experiences in the military, and that the military in general (for all its faults that have been documented) is still absolutely essential for the welfare of the nation.

And to answer your other question, I'd say that the most common misconception of Scientology is that, on a fundamental level, it's somehow different from other religions/ philosophies, many of which are also making a significant amount of money. In other words, if reading the Bible truly resonates with an individual, they become a Christian. If reading the Quran truly resonates with an individual, they become a Muslim. If reading the books and teachings of L. Ron Hubbard truly resonates with an individual, suddenly critics often try to undermine and discredit them by openly declaring that they're a brainwashed cult members who shouldn't be believed.

Another misconception regarding Scientologists is that there is 'intolerance' or 'hostility' towards non-Scientologists, when in fact non-Scientologists often seem far more 'hostile' and intolerant to Scientologists than visa versa. For an example, when Isaac Hayes turned to Scientology, you'd think that those around him might have been happy for him that he was able to find meaning and joy through the works of L. Ron Hubbard. Instead he was viciously attacked, and to such an extent that the theology of his faith was publicly mocked by his employers. Hayes had no problem with his employers for their beliefs, though for whatever reason his employers had a significant problem with his beliefs, even though by his own admission, he found the movement to be immensely beneficial to him.

 

[Obfuscate]

my opinon (based upon the first page of this thread), is that you are seeking to defend scientology more than gather a consensus opinion... perhaps i am wrong but i am not presently interested enough to review the rest of the discussion that follows and form a solid idea... in any case, i believe scientology is a reworked form of dianetics (in some ways similair to christian science)... i believe that it is a monument to hubbard's greed, ego, strength of will, and manipulative nature... i think that the deeper one gets, the more the teeth come out... based upon the documents leaked from their organization that their "higher truth" must require a lot of mind games and conditioning to be palatable... members that have left the "church" seem to support that theory... they are the religion i have the second least amount of respect for (catholicism being the least, and the mormons a step behind)... i don't feel the need to engage with scientology, because i am very well acquainted with the elements that aren't a ridiculous science fiction fantasy... i would never disparage someone's religous beliefs unless invited to do so (as i feel you have done here)... if it makes you "happy", i am pleased that you are pleased... there are a lot of beliefs/opinions that are more or less absurd to the outside observer (including faiths i respect, but disagree with), but if it works for you it doesn't matter if the rest of the world thinks your beliefs are a joke in bad taste... good luck with all of that, but i don't plan to ever engage with that predatory money pit...

 

[Deprecator]

You can find pretty much everything about this cult there and why it's no good.

It's a shame that you had to rely so heavily on another person's opinion on Scientology instead of being able to articulate one yourself. Still, if you want to link the the disgruntled views of a former member on a thread that I started and then claim that "everything about Scientology can be learned from it", then I will (respectfully) try and address a few of his points.

"Scientologists had to lie through their teeth to gain religious status". What lies? Interesting how the speaker just leaves it at that and fails to expand upon any 'lie' that he thinks was stated. Apparently he presumes this statement to be self-evident and hopes that his audience will see it as self-evident as well, which is more or less accurate if most of his audience already harbors negative prejudices against Scientology from the get-go. And while I might have disagreed with him, I still would have respected him if he had instead stated something along the lines of: "Scientologists had to lie through their teeth to gain religious status. For an example, when they said X, Y and Z" (And due to this glaring omission on his part, I can only presume that not everyone believes in the value of academic integrity).

Later on the speaker becomes quite fixated with distinction between 'cult' and 'religion', and it's very interesting how he makes no attempt whatsoever to try and explain the difference between the two terms. So what is the difference between the two? Well interestingly enough, according to the literal definitions offered by the dictionary, there isn't one. In other words, the CoS wants to self-identify as an exotic dancer, and yet her critics insist upon calling her a 'no-good, dirty stripper'.

cult
kəlt/Submit
noun

• a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object

.

 

[sLiPpY]

Scientology is an Abraham religion...go stuff on that.

They're all equally ridiculous.

 

[Beorn]

Somebody asked earlier, but i don't recall you answering.
[MENTION=34985]Deprecator[/MENTION], how much have you spent on scientology?