Has anyone read How To Win Friends and Influence People-what are your thoughts?

[Mole]

Predestination

As Victor stated, the original audience for this book was the American salesman.

The problem, I think, is a larger cultural issue.

Dale believed in the doctrine of the Elect. And this is a founding doctrine of his culture - and suffuses the culture today.

And prosperity - wealth - were the sign you were one of the Elect.

And Dale was wealthy beyond imagination, so he believed he was predestined for salvation.

And being a good man, he wanted to save us too - in the only way he knew.

Just as God created us in His own image, Dale wanted to create us in his image.

And his image was that of a businessman.

The doctrine of Predestination, the Elect, and wealth as a sign of salvation, have shaped a whole culture.

So much so, that it is commonly said that the business of this culture is business.

And so much so, that this culture has two political parties - both parties of business - there is no social democratic party, as in other democracies. So this culture is essentially a one party State.

And Dale Carnegie is its avatar and, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", is its bible.

 

[burkeus]

Party hardy.

 

[heart]

I think this is a book primarily for extroverts. It is about breadth rather than depth in relationships.
The part about being "genuinely interested" in others: this is definitely easier for some types (e.g. ENFP/ENTP) than others. Their focus is naturally outward, they are naturally interested in other people/objects. It energizes them. I'm not like that. Most people bore my pants off. I'm sure it's mutual too. I'd like it if there were more people in the world that were genuinely interesting to me, or even tolerably so, but it is the way it is.

I don't think you can "win" true friends, you have to count yourself lucky when you stumble across them.

Yes, good points.

Comment in general:

I think there's a difference between being tactful towards other's feelings and going around smoozing like a used car salesman to manipulate others into liking you.


Glancing through the thread, I see a pattern of external judgers finding value in the book and internal judgers being repulsed by the book.

 

[heart]

The problem, I think, is a larger cultural issue.

Dale believed in the doctrine of the Elect. And this is a founding doctrine of his culture - and suffuses the culture today.

And prosperity - wealth - were the sign you were one of the Elect.

And Dale was wealthy beyond imagination, so he believed he was predestined for salvation.

And being a good man, he wanted to save us too - in the only way he knew.

Just as God created us in His own image, Dale wanted to create us in his image.

And his image was that of a businessman.

The doctrine of Predestination, the Elect, and wealth as a sign of salvation, have shaped a whole culture.

So much so, that it is commonly said that the business of this culture is business.

And so much so, that this culture has two political parties - both parties of business - there is no social democratic party, as in other democracies. So this culture is essentially a one party State.

And Dale Carnegie is its avatar and, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", is its bible.

And Gordon Gekko told us all in 1987: "Greed is GOOD!" (May as well have been Greed is God. )

Rod Tidwell (1996): "Show me the MONEY!"

People see these movies, forget the moral message and instead parrot the cheap slogans as justification for a society based on what a person does and what they can produce as the sole aspect of their worth as people. More of anything is good, even relationships. Stack friends up like cord wood.

 

[INTJMom]

And look at the crisis those attitudes have landed us in.

 

[ladypinkington]

And look at the crisis those attitudes have landed us in.

What do you mean?
I would be interested to hear more.

 

[Salomé]

Listening to you makes me think about Kramer on Seinfeld,lol- and I mean that in a good way as I like his character- he was the one who could say to the girl who had a big nose- "Your just as pretty as any other girl- you just need a nose job" and then when she did get a nosejob she was butchered and he was the only one who said so- in the end he ended up with the girl as she appreciated his honesty.

Kramer! KRAMER? Weird freaky misfit goofball Kramer with the brown trousers?

He ended up with the girl because she was f-u-g-e-r-l-y!

I always fancied myself as an Elaine, maybe a Jerry, George at a stretch, but Kramer!?

Maybe I need to read me that book some more....

 

[INTJMom]

What do you mean?
I would be interested to hear more.

I mean the financial crisis the US is in.
I believe that deep down at the foundation, it's a crisis of bad character.

 

[wildcat]

I've always been a little different and not so good at making friends.

My parents loved me and recognised this so bought me Dale's book. And interestingly they bought me, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", when I was just a little boy.

But even at that early age I could see it was fake and alien.

And as I grew older I came to recognise the context in which it was written and for whom it was written.

It was written for American salesmen.

Americans love salesmen - their greatest tragedy is even called, "Death of a Salesman".

And we all know that in America when you can fake sincerity, you've got it made.

So my parents, with the best intentions in the world, tried to turn me into an American fake.

Fortunately my stomach revolted at this and I vomited up Dale Carnegie's, "How to Make Friends and Influence People".

Thank you.

And Gordon Gekko told us all in 1987: "Greed is GOOD!" (May as well have been Greed is God. )

Rod Tidwell (1996): "Show me the MONEY!"

People see these movies, forget the moral message and instead parrot the cheap slogans as justification for a society based on what a person does and what they can produce as the sole aspect of their worth as people. More of anything is good, even relationships. Stack friends up like cord wood.

Well said.

I was wondering if anyone has put into practice any of the priniciples they have learned from this book and what their experiences were as a result.

I was also interested in learning what others might have agreed with and found helpful or found disagreeable and why and why not.

What are your thoughts and experiences in getting people to like you, winning people to your ways of thinking, and changing bad behavior?

The

you! you! you!

of Carnegie

is about

me! me! me!

 

[Mole]

Thank you.

No worries mate.

 

[wildcat]

No worries mate.

You and heart saved the day for me.
Two lights in the darkness.

 

[Mole]

You and heart saved the day for me.
Two lights in the darkness.

You see Wildcat, you are not all bad.

Now there are three lights in the darkness.

And better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

 

[heart]

The

you! you! you!

of Carnegie

is about

me! me! me!

That says it all. You put a big on my face, Wildcat.

 

[Mole]

That says it all. You put a big on my face, Wildcat.

Yeah, it was really well put.

Go, go, go - wild, wild, Wildcat.

 

[FDG]

I thought most of the advice was common sense.

 

[IEE623]

I thought most of the advice was common sense.

common sense but not a lot of people can do it.

anyway, the more that book mentioned about Lincoln, the more I think he is ENFJ. ENFJs have great felicity in social interactions.

 

[IlyaK1986]

And Gordon Gekko told us all in 1987: "Greed is GOOD!" (May as well have been Greed is God. )

Rod Tidwell (1996): "Show me the MONEY!"

People see these movies, forget the moral message and instead parrot the cheap slogans as justification for a society based on what a person does and what they can produce as the sole aspect of their worth as people. More of anything is good, even relationships. Stack friends up like cord wood.

Bullshit. Did you miss the part about how Gordon Gekko's father was pushing around electrical supplies until he dropped dead at 49? Or how Gekko, despite his dashing appearance, came from an absolutely humble background?

As someone that came from nothing, I can definitely want to be like Gekko more than anyone else. The man singlehandedly made himself a success.

And I hate to break it to you people, but Greed IS the soul of capitalism. "I want" is the essence of capitalism, so in order to take advantage of "I want", people will do something that creates wealth, so "they get". Because you want something, whether it's greed for life (you want to live longer), greed for money (you want to be free from financial burdens), greed for love (you want an amazing significant other), or greed for knowledge (you want to be an expert), you will go to the lengths to get that something.

And as for the situation we're in...what about one of Gekko's other quotes:

"Now you either do it right...or you get eliminated."

Wall Street just eliminated those that didn't do it right.

As for Carnegie's book, I use it on interviews. Be genuinely interested about my interviewer. If they came all this way to interview me, then I want them to do the talking. If I can get them to talk about themselves and listen, because everyone's experience is something I can genuinely learn from, they may want to take me along.

Right now, my job is to prove that I am willing to listen and learn. I believe Carnegie's book exemplifies that.

And furthermore, it's nice to have a bunch of people like you so that they can serve your purposes. And if you like them, it becomes a mutual friendship.

 

[ygolo]

Yes, good points.

Comment in general:

I think there's a difference between being tactful towards other's feelings and going around smoozing like a used car salesman to manipulate others into liking you.


Glancing through the thread, I see a pattern of external judgers finding value in the book and internal judgers being repulsed by the book.

I never read the book. Is it really about manipulating people?

I thought it would be more about principles of "cooperative behavior."

 

[Mole]

The Herd and the Sloth

....but Greed IS the soul of capitalism.

And fear is the dark side, as we see everyday now.

Greed leads the Bull Market and fear leads the Bear Market.

And the Bear follows the Bull as Nemesis follows Hubris.

And it is a herd of Bulls and a sloth of Bears.

Greed is contagious and spreads through the herd of Bulls like wildfire; and fear is equally contagious and spreads through the sloth of bears like epsom salts.

So the market is a creature of the herd and the sloth - God bless 'em both.

 

[heart]

Bullshit. Did you miss the part about how Gordon Gekko's father was pushing around electrical supplies until he dropped dead at 49? Or how Gekko, despite his dashing appearance, came from an absolutely humble background? As someone that came from nothing, I can definitely want to be like Gekko more than anyone else. The man singlehandedly made himself a success.

And here I thought it was just fiction!


Now I see it must be as true as any Horatio Alger story!