are optimists naive?

[sLiPpY]

Optimism to the listener is often a form of sarcasm for the speaker.

 

[meowington]

Yes

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist ~ Mark Twain

And another one :
The man who is a pessimist before 48 knows too much; if he is an optimist after it, he knows too little. ~ Mark Twain


In my personal life however, I've learned to tell myself "everything will turn out alright" because otherwise I'd go mad.

 

[Obfuscate]

optimism and pessimism are merely bias... there is no reason to project your internal state on the world as a default... the glass is completely full (half air), and if you waste time on debating the water level, someone will drink or spill your's eventually... the best approach (i think), is to draw conclusions based on what is in front of you, and not to waste too much time outside of your present moment... when we do more than prepare, we are wasting our mental resources... how can one experience life fully if trapped in a time that no longer (or may never) exist? i am pessimistic about somethings, but i do my best to keep an open mind...

post script:

as for naivety, it is really endearing... i try to protect it when i see it in someone (unless they seem spoiled/pampered)... i don't see it as directly tied to optimism, but is frequently paired with it.. i have known niave pessimists...

 

[Lark]

That is why it is best to be a realist, with a sound grasp of cause/effect and cost/benefit.

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite characters: “Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it." The alternative? "remove the carrot and walk forward with our eyes open!”

Is that not cynicism?

I share that view pretty much, although I might not frame it in those terms, my point though is that no one will thank you for that.

In fact, it will count against you. I'm sure of it at this stage in life. I'm absolutely sure that, in the UK at least, most people think carrot and stick is the only way to motivate others. Although steadily they are thinking less carrot and more stick. And I say others because its one of the remarkable things I've noticed because most people will generalise, extremely vaguely and often nastily, without ever believing that it will apply directly to them or who they are talking with or to.

 

[The Cat]

Sometimes in life you have a little piss in you. How you feel about it is up to you.

 

[Coriolis]

Is that not cynicism?

I share that view pretty much, although I might not frame it in those terms, my point though is that no one will thank you for that.

In fact, it will count against you. I'm sure of it at this stage in life. I'm absolutely sure that, in the UK at least, most people think carrot and stick is the only way to motivate others. Although steadily they are thinking less carrot and more stick. And I say others because its one of the remarkable things I've noticed because most people will generalise, extremely vaguely and often nastily, without ever believing that it will apply directly to them or who they are talking with or to.

I don't care what label you want to apply to it - though "cynicism" is often equated with skepticism, which I consider quite healthy - it is how I think and seems most reasonable to me. When we speak of carrots and sticks, the carrot is something we actually get for our efforts, as is the stick if we don't measure up. The problem with the carrot in my example is that it is forever out of reach of the horse. It thus perpetually tantalizes, but never delivers.

Similarly, hope can easily become nothing more than an engine for disappointment. Nothing breeds the worst kind of cynicism and perhaps jadedness than repeatedly having one's hopes dashed. The alternative is to go into situations with a realistic sense of what to expect, and what will be necessary to accomplish your goals. That is the point of my quote. And I really don't expect thanks, accolades, or recognition. It would be enough for people actually to operate more on these principles. It thing more people would experience more success with less drama and frustration.

As I have mentioned before, the glass is always completely full: partly of air, partly of water (or other liquid).

 

[BlueScreen]

Optimism doesn't have to be an ignorance of reality. It can just be hoping and believing things will turn out well. In that way the pessimist is somewhat naive as they stay stuck on the less enjoyable, and seeing most of life is the journey it's not a very fun one.

 

[prplchknz]

Optimism doesn't have to be an ignorance of reality. It can just be hoping and believing things will turn out well. In that way the pessimist is somewhat naive as they stay stuck on the less enjoyable, and seeing most of life is the journey it's not a very fun one.

yes!!!!

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think it's fine when blended with a pragmatic approach.

 

[Sacrophagus]

That is why it is best to be a realist, with a sound grasp of cause/effect and cost/benefit.

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite characters: “Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it." The alternative? "remove the carrot and walk forward with our eyes open!”

You have chosen your reality, and as such you will live by your credo.

If I was to be real, I should've been dead by now, instead of just being clinically dead that night, when all the best fucking doctors in the country had concrete evidence that my case is lost. Indeed, they made no mistake in their verdict, I should be dead. I am a pyrronhist by essence and was comforting my loved ones so that my passing could feel lighter. When everyone was crying and praying, one overly optimistic person was prompting me to fight and be hopeful, hopeful, a word that used to make me cringe. My body was rendered incapacitated, so I decided to take that chance, to believe intially in her optimism for her contentment, and eventually for my own well-being.

Long story short, I lived to tell the tale.

Call it God, consciousness, higher-self, whatever happened, whatever was infused in me that night, the odds were beaten.

There's more to us that the tangible and concrete reality in flesh. Hapless souls those who believe otherwise.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Optimism is a must in order to move forwards and it's in my personal viewpoint a must to live life fully. You see there's no good in seeing the bad and danger and downside of everything or you would probably become one forlorn person. Plus it drives is through hard times as I find during hard times I stay happy and hopeful by looking at that tunnel at the end.

 

[Coriolis]

My body was rendered incapacitated, so I decided to take that chance, to believe intially in her optimism for her contentment, and eventually for my own well-being.

Long story short, I lived to tell the tale.

Call it God, consciousness, higher-self, whatever happened, whatever was infused in me that night, the odds were beaten.

At that point, what did you have to lose? Cost/benefit success.

There's more to us that the tangible and concrete reality in flesh.

Obviously. These get folded into the calculation, too.

 

[Hive]

They can be, but they're much easier to bring down to earth than pessimists, who seem to have had their minds poisoned by this outlook, while dressing it up as "realism" to justify a defeatist attitude. I can't stand it. An optimist tries. A pessimist does not. An optimist may suffer failure but at least they don't fear it.

 

[Lord Lavender]

They can be, but they're much easier to bring down to earth than pessimists, who seem to have had their minds poisoned by this outlook, while dressing it up as "realism" to justify a defeatist attitude. I can't stand it. An optimist tries. A pessimist does not. An optimist may suffer failure but at least they don't fear it.

That's my main gripe with people who call pessmestic outlooks "realistic". It's not realstic and pragmatic to assume the worse in everything.

 

[Hive]

That's my main gripe with people who call pessmestic outlooks "realistic". It's not realstic and pragmatic to assume the worse in everything.

It's usually people who used to be optimistic and naive and got suckerpunched by life because of it. You're right, it's not realistic, and in both the optimist and pessimist stage of their life, a sober perspective is what they've been lacking.

 

[Sacrophagus]

That's my main gripe with people who call pessmestic outlooks "realistic". It's not realstic and pragmatic to assume the worse in everything.

The sad people call it caution. They live in paranoia arming themselves for an armageddon that is not due, instead of using their time for better prospects.

Their slogan: "Better be worried than sorry."

They will poison your life with their sordid worries, assume the worst in everything, and demand a proof of otherwise before they can allow you to breathe in peace, that is before they find something else to worry about.

 

[kyuuei]

I think it is a trend to mistake optimism (to see a positive side of things) with a lack of understanding of the world.

People tend to take more jaded approaches to life when they see more of the world. There is an emphasis on the darker aspects of the world, because we humans really notice those things and they stick with us longer. (Example: Do you listen to your mother telling you you're beautiful 100x a year, or do you remember that one really awful stranger that told you how ugly you are once?) So, naturally, we correlate optimism with those who are sheltered from the ugly aspects of life.

Similarly, we see aspects of ignorance in optimistic people frequently. People saying "just walk outside! teehee!" to people suffering from depression. There is a whole subreddit called wowthanksimcured filled with ignorant people's optimistic messages.

I really don't think these are mutually exclusive (i.e. knowledge of the world and it's inner workings and positive attitudes) but they just tend to trend together often enough.

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

Not necessarily naive. There are different kinds of optimists ... Some maybe lack judgement skills in general, which makes it harder to for eg see when people don't mean you any good. Talking about the optimists that always predict better outcomes of things, these optimistic kinds are not unknown to me, and I have met some and to me they just seemed very enthusiastic about life in general ... Enthusiasm. That's a big matter when talking about these kind of optimists/ those with that optimistic outlook on life. Other than that, I have nothing new to bring to this conversation. Others already have tackled all the points I could come up with.

 

[anticlimatic]

is it naive to believe that things will turn out for the best?

optimistic characters are usually portrayed as naive and sometimes almost magical, or as children... why?

Optimism is the most logically sound approach, which is why simple people (children/fools) employ it so readily. It's so simple and elegant of a structure that it can be detected and utilized by the subconscious. Books can (and have) been written on the power of an optimistic perspective in many many many avenues of life; success, happiness, productivity, positive relationships, you name it.

Naivety and optimism are separate things, but there's nothing inherently optimistic about naivety. I know plenty of naive people who are anything but optimistic, and I know plenty of optimistic people who are anything but naive. If you're both naive and optimistic, you're probably holding up the line at your local gas station buying scratch lotto tickets at the moment. If you're neither naive and optimistic, you're probably an INTJ posting on this board about how republicans are going to destroy the world whilst chain smoking camel nonfilters. Clearly, you want to be one but not the other.

 

[Coriolis]

That's my main gripe with people who call pessmestic outlooks "realistic". It's not realstic and pragmatic to assume the worse in everything.

Yes. Neither optimism nor pessimism is realistic. The middle ground, of course, is realism. When fueled by strong values and ideals ("idealism"), it can accomplish great things.