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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    God's logic sound like "You create something and that somethihg is taken off contol and then you try fix this over and over again.' God does not have a clue what he does. He blame his creation for everything he made! Things ger worst when you put "know-it-all" , "all-powefull" title to him because he is not. He is very shot side being who act in the moment of his impulses conatnaly fight with his wrong experiment like the universe is the machine who need to be fixed it. This is not omnipotence at all because omnipotence is when Being creare something and don't intrevent to lower worlds. God of Abraham knows how things will work and then show anger on his creations!
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix31 View Post
    The genocide is justified because he's God... Yeah. Definitely worthy of my worship.
    I will ask Norexan again and phoenix for the first time.
    What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him? If you don't have either of those you're just complaining that things aren't as you see fit which is not the same thing as saying that God does evil.
    Things are certainly not the way I would like them like them, but I don't think that makes God evil.

  2. #42
    Senior Member phoenix31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I will ask Norexan again and phoenix for the first time.
    What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him? If you don't have either of those you're just complaining that things aren't as you see fit which is not the same thing as saying that God does evil.
    Things are certainly not the way I would like them like them, but I don't think that makes God evil.
    I figure if, as a lowly human being, my morality is better than God's, I don't particularly care about his supposed authority. I'm good, thanks.

    I don't believe in evil. But I'm kind of curious if your God can commit atrocities and not be evil, what makes him different from Satan?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix31 View Post
    what makes him different from Satan?
    Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.

  4. #44
    Quetzalcoatl Norexan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.
    Sacrificing himself to solve problem what he as the creator caused! Intelligence. Such a "All-powerful" being with everlasting wish to control his destiny who always slip away from his hands and OF ALL POWERS he possess (he is all-powerful right?) he uses methods of playing victim , ethnic cleansing , raping children....
    Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unused
    The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
    ===Logical Crusader===

    Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.

  5. #45
    Senior Member phoenix31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.
    So let me get this straight. God created humans, knowing full well that there would be war, disease and famine, much of which He caused Himself. And then after centuries of human suffering, He sent his son, who gave up 30 something years out of eternity, suffered for a day or so, and then was reunited with his father. To live forever. With no separation. What exactly was the big sacrifice? This is the reason why I'm supposed to worship God?

    Also if he's the one managing the place, what with the hurricanes, tornadoes and tsunamis, I'm really not impressed.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    Sacrificing himself to solve problem what he as the creator caused! Intelligence. Such a "All-powerful" being with everlasting wish to control his destiny who always slip away from his hands and OF ALL POWERS he possess (he is all-powerful right?) he uses methods of playing victim , ethnic cleansing , raping children....
    You still haven't answered my question and I've already asked you twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix31 View Post
    So let me get this straight. God created humans, knowing full well that there would be war, disease and famine, much of which He caused Himself. And then after centuries of human suffering, He sent his son, who gave up 30 something years out of eternity, suffered for a day or so, and then was reunited with his father. To live forever. With no separation. What exactly was the big sacrifice? This is the reason why I'm supposed to worship God?
    So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it???
    If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so?
    God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value.
    I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose.
    With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice.

    Also if he's the one managing the place, what with the hurricanes, tornadoes and tsunamis, I'm really not impressed.
    God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.

  7. #47
    Senior Member phoenix31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it???
    If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so?
    God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value.
    I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose.
    With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice.



    God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.
    If we're talking good things in life, my life is phenomenal. I'm lucky. But people dying of starvation? Children suffering from cancer? Rape? Torture? Slavery? Ethnic cleansing? No, I cannot find any good in those things that makes the suffering "worth it." It astounds me that you could view God as the orchestrator and allower of such horror and call Him good.

    My opinions are irrelevant, so I guess you won't mind that, with all due respect, friend, I think you are completely delusional.

  8. #48
    Quetzalcoatl Norexan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him?




    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    No. Silly is when you have a god who make mistakes like human and expect from me to don't treat him as human!
    Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unused
    The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
    ===Logical Crusader===

    Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You still haven't answered my question and I've already asked you twice. So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it??? If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so? God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value. I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose. With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice. God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.
    They say your god created the universe, but there is not a shred of evidence.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix31 View Post
    If we're talking good things in life, my life is phenomenal. I'm lucky. But people dying of starvation? Children suffering from cancer? Rape? Torture? Slavery? Ethnic cleansing? No, I cannot find any good in those things that makes the suffering "worth it." It astounds me that you could view God as the orchestrator and allower of such horror and call Him good.
    So the minute your life encounters serious suffering it will cease to have meaning and purpose?
    The lives of half the global population today who live on less than $2.50 a day have less meaning and purpose than your life?
    The lives of virtually everyone who lived before the last 100 years were pointless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    No. Silly is when you have a god who make mistakes like human and expect from me to don't treat him as human!
    That's not an answer.
    I'm asking you what is your basis for judging anything. How do you make your moral claims about what is right and wrong for humans.
    You just keep asserting that things are bad, but I would like to know what your moral framework is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    They say your god created the universe, but there is not a shred of evidence.
    There is no evidence that would change your mind or anyone's mind.
    It's not a matter of evidence. Not because there is no evidence. The whole universe is the evidence, but rather it's a matter of false belief.
    Your belief in evidence as the sole determination of truth is a misguided belief.
    Likes Mole liked this post

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