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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    I'm operating under the assumption that there is an Ultimate Truth and you're not, correct?

    If you claim there is no Ultimate Truth and that everyone operates under their Truth autonomously, would you accept (although, disagree) my Truth that there is an Ultimate Truth:
    My claim is that truths don't have binary value, you can't use absolutism to define the value of a truth. As truths only have as much value as the person holding them gives them. There is no yes or no answer, because it's impossible to determine any universal value of such things. However you can have your own personal truth that is "Ultimate" to you.
    So, you'd agree that my Truth that there is an Ultimate Truth is just as valid as your Truth that there is no Ultimate Truth.

    Y or N?
    Paradoxes don't have yes or no answers. That's the point. The irresistible force cannot exist in a place where it would meet an unmovable object, because that means neither exists. Such is my stance on an Ultimate Universal Truth. The concept can exist and the concept only.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    Paradoxes don't have yes or no answers. That's the point. The irresistible force cannot exist in a place where it would meet an unmovable object, because that means neither exists. Such is my stance on an Ultimate Universal Truth. The concept can exist and the concept only.
    You choose to box yourself into your own paradox. This paradox does not exist in my Ultimate Truth. I also don't buy into the idea of "post-truth" which you seem to be operating under.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    This is false.
    Another part of seeking truths, if you can't be bothered to explain why something is false, why should anyone believe you when you say it is? That's a crucial part of how we come to the truth as humans, because truths aren't just truths because they were divined as such, they're truths because we determined them as such.

  4. #24
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I don't know what the ultimate truth would even be. I suppose it would have to be something that clears up all mysteries. In that case, it would be: there are no mysteries; you know everything. And that, I believe is really the case. I think that all of reality is open to awareness, and that the appearance of a separation between oneself and the truth is just that--an appearance, albeit one with practical and emotional value.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    Another part of seeking truths, if you can't be bothered to explain why something is false, why should anyone believe you when you say it is? That's a crucial part of how we come to the truth as humans, because truths aren't just truths because they were divined as such, they're truths because we determined them as such.
    But, your claim being false is my Truth under your own explanation that there ultimately is no Truth, so it doesn't matter if I explain why you're false or speak with a forked tongue or not. Both of our Truths are as valid as the other, under your definition. Or does my Truth fall under your category of "paradox?" In which case, how convenient for you that my Truth is a paradox, and yours isn't.

    Your Truth sounds more like a paradox to me, since you admitted that you have no standard to measure Truth against while I do since I believe in an universal Ultimate Truth.

    Claiming something is a paradox could be your standard, albeit a bit flaccid.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    But, your claim being false is my Truth under your own explanation that there ultimately is no Truth, so it doesn't matter if I explain why you're false or speak with a forked tongue or not. Both of our Truths are as valid as the other, under your definition. Or does my Truth fall under your category of "paradox?"
    As I've previously stated, that is the point. The very concept is paradoxical. That's not a bad thing. The point of a paradox is to force you to think. You won't find the answer to the paradox, but you'll find many other things looking for it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    As I've previously stated, that is the point. The very concept is paradoxical. That's not a bad thing. The point of a paradox is to force you to think. You won't find the answer to the paradox, but you'll find many other things looking for it.
    Right, and my point is that this particular paradox is yours to deal with.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Right, and my point is that this particular paradox is yours to deal with.
    I already have.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    I already have.
    Doubt it.

    My claim is that truths don't have binary value, you can't use absolutism to define the value of a truth.
    Your "claim is that truths don't have a binary value" by using binary words like don't and can't. What's the opposite of don't and can't? Seems likely that you prefer the negative value as opposed to a positive one.

    My claim is that truths do have binary value, you can use absolutism to define the value of a truth.
    See?

    There is no yes or no answer, because it's impossible to determine any universal value of such things.
    Truly?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Doubt it.
    Your error is you're looking for an answer with a clean neat bow. As I've said already;

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    My claim is that truths don't have binary value, you can't use absolutism to define the value of a truth. As truths only have as much value as the person holding them gives them. There is no yes or no answer, because it's impossible to determine any universal value of such things. However you can have your own personal truth that is "Ultimate" to you.


    Paradoxes don't have yes or no answers. That's the point. The irresistible force cannot exist in a place where it would meet an unmovable object, because that means neither exists. Such is my stance on an Ultimate Universal Truth. The concept can exist and the concept only.
    That's your answer.

    Philosophy wouldn't be philosophy if it had clear absolute answers.

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