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  1. #1
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    Default Are the Old Testament and New Testament two different religions: Judaism/Christianity

    A friend wrote, "...Jew in his life time (as stated in the bible, but what isn't stated in the bible, is that Jews don't believe in "hell" as defined by Christians, as they believe that if there is any form of "hell" It is on this earth plane...do you find that interesting?"

    (1) Yes the Christian and Judaic concept of any hell is different. The friend is correct bulls eye. Anyway the Old testament there is no fiery hell. And there is no eternal damnation.

    (2) Also in the book of Genesis there are two distinct different creation narratives.

    (3) The point in the Old testament one had God a 'Jealous God' and "An Angry God Full of Wrath.' According to The Old testament God wiped armies out in his either wrath and the protecting of his people.
    The story of an 'Angry God' is his wiping off the map both Sodom and Gomorrah.

    (4) Meanwhile the Christian New Testament says God is a 'Merciful God,' a 'Loving God,' and a God full of 'Grace.' For we are all sinners. And none by their acts or obedience or goodness would be able or worthy but for God's grace to enter the kingdom of heaven.

    I highlighted God's different personalities. In the Old testament 'A god of Wrath, Anger and Jealousy.' In the New testament of the new Christian faith 'God is a Merciful, Loving God full of Grace.'

    (5) Jesus chose making amendments to the old faith of practiced laws in the Judaic Bible. One was "I say to you it's known the 10 commandments of Moses but I say unto you follow these two commandments, "Love thy God with all thy might' and 'Love thy neighbor' for there are no greater commands than these I set before you." This amendment as well other examples and amendments to Judaic laws to fall in line with his new message of the 'Loving God' and his practice and preaching of love.

    (6) To me the Old Testament is entirely Judaism. In fact I propose to you that in fact the New Testament and Old testament are in reality two distinct religion's. I think these two distinct and different religions. The holy doctrines became finally merged due in fact for the two distinctive reasons to establish a royal lineage and Jesus was Jewish and his prayer was to the God of the Hebrews. After all said Jesus was part of the Jewish heritage and practiced it's principles. Thus a connection.

    (7) Jesus ancestry became known as going back to the time of King David thus a royal lineage can be established, and this was extremely important as to establish Jesus as of royal blood and the anointed son of God. This will establish legitimacy for the new faith to sprout and grow as well also not being extinguished.

    (8) A interesting anecdote Jesus had this new message full of love. If however the Apostle Paul did not travel in his missionary work and spread the gospel or the 'Good News' the Christian faith may have been extinguished. It was Paul's Journeys which established and put roots into the ground far and wide for Jesus never did leave Galilee.

    (8) (Now I am aware there are people who say the missing years Jesus traveled in different lands such like Egypt and India). However this isn't in the Protestant Bible or the Apocrypha. These missing years would have been after the earlier brief stories of Jesus.

    (9) One whereupon he taught at the synagogue at a mere 12 years of age and the men became filled with wonderment and whispered among one another, "How can this boy speak with such authority on the scripture. Now his parents Mary and Joseph did not know where he was at. Another story where Mary asked Jesus to please help turn water into wine at a wedding. But what happened to these missing years between 12 and 30 and this is where there are many who do believe he traveled diverse areas.

    The various books that are in the Apocrypha were deemed by a council as not being divinely inspired or Holy so were left out of the Bible, except the Catholic and Orthodox Christian Bible which does have the Apocrypha in the Holy Texts.

    (10) I never could get around that the entire 2000 years after Christ's death the Jewish faith has been ruthlessly attacked by Christians in every land far and wide. .

    (11) The Jewish (Unfairly) have been blamed for Jesus death.

    (12) Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Albert Einstein and a wealth of studious and science minded individuals are among a pantheon of greats.

    (13) Hitler drove out Einstein and a host of the scholars, wealthy and population out of Europe {Much to Hitler's detriment). The Spanish Inquisition too torturing the Jewish faith and lesson their wealth. Russia, Poland, Germans of the Holy Roman Empire did persecute too.

    (13) The Jewish people were not a war driven army. They did not have a home. No army.

    (14) They were small population in comparison.

    (15) Thus leads to an easy scapegoat.

    (16) The Jewish people were mercantile, rich banking institutions all around Europe, Middle east and Africa. Also they had diamonds trade. Thus greed, the outsider and viewed 'different', in the negative sense."

  2. #2
    Guardian of Ga'Hoole Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Let's consult the commander-in-chief on the topic:

    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



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    Don't forget to throw Islam into the mix, both the Old and New Testament are recognized as holy books by them. And Jesus is mentioned by name more in the Koran than Muhammad. If you want to get a pretty balanced historical perspective about the history of Judaic derived religion, it's beginnings and divergences from somebody who treats the subject with respect, this is a really great book: A History of God: The 4, 000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam - Kindle edition by Karen Armstrong. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member sLiPpY's Avatar
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    well, I can say with reasonable certainty being "legally" ethnically Jewish...having tons of conversations with other Jews, most practicing over decades. Judaism and Christianity aren't even remotely the same religion, and have not a damned thing in common.

    Christianity, if you want to talk about Greek Philosophy, and Astro-theology...astro-theology there might be a smidgen in common with Judaism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Don't forget to throw Islam into the mix, both the Old and New Testament are recognized as holy books by them. And Jesus is mentioned by name more in the Koran than Muhammad. If you want to get a pretty balanced historical perspective about the history of Judaic derived religion, it's beginnings and divergences from somebody who treats the subject with respect, this is a really great book: A History of God: The 4, 000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam - Kindle edition by Karen Armstrong. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
    Hilaire Belloc, a Christian writer, considered Islam to be one of the earliest heresies, besides the ones which lead to the creation of the creed at Nicea because diverse ideas and claims had arisen in the mean time due to the spread of the message across a big territory and many communities, such as arianism and stuff like that.

    I'm not sure what's being described as apocraythea because there are books in the RCC bible which are not included in the solo scripture error churches and congregations (ironically) but I'm not sure they are apocraythea, which I understand to be books associated with gnosticism and the earliest schisms between those who believed Jesus and God were one and those who believed the Jesus was the good deified man versus the wicked former deity.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Nestorianism and Iconoclasm bore out Islam. The first council of Nicea convened to deal with Arianism.

    I heard that the early AD/CE century Jews revised the Torah to exclude as many prophesies of Christ as possible in order to combat the early Jesus movement. The Jesus movement simply kept using the same Septuagint as before which included what is now called "Apocryphal texts." Look into it. /Eddie Bravo Council of Jamnia - Wikipedia

    The early Church perspective interprets the OT/Septuagint/"The Scriptures" in its entirety as a prophesy of Christ's coming in what is later compiled by The Church as the New Testament, insofar as Christ Himself creating the world which makes sense because He is the Logos/Word of God.

    As far as the differences between the two, most of it could be gleaned from Hebrews.

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    Its God deciding..."shit people changed, need to change the words used...same meaning though" basically interpretation follows mental state due to upbringing, knowledge, and culture. Focus, priorities, emotional baggage, etc. All change the fine tuned aspects of what meaning people pull outta it.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Its God deciding..."shit people changed, need to change the words used...same meaning though" basically interpretation follows mental state due to upbringing, knowledge, and culture. Focus, priorities, emotional baggage, etc. All change the fine tuned aspects of what meaning people pull outta it.
    Why living traditions are more important than solo scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    well, I can say with reasonable certainty being "legally" ethnically Jewish...having tons of conversations with other Jews, most practicing over decades. Judaism and Christianity aren't even remotely the same religion, and have not a damned thing in common.

    Christianity, if you want to talk about Greek Philosophy, and Astro-theology...astro-theology there might be a smidgen in common with Judaism.
    In just a short study i find several key concepts that are similiar. The ways people decide to do things are vastly different.
    Im out, its been fun
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  10. #10
    De Ore Leonis Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Its God deciding..."shit people changed, need to change the words used...same meaning though" basically interpretation follows mental state due to upbringing, knowledge, and culture. Focus, priorities, emotional baggage, etc. All change the fine tuned aspects of what meaning people pull outta it.
    Sounds a bit like the Bahai doctrine of progressive revelation.
    Judex ergo cum sedebit,
    Quidquid latet apparebit.

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