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The Random Spiritual Thought Thread

Lark

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If we exist as past, present, future states of self only as perceived in linear progressions of time as non-existence, existence, death. What if time is not linear and we are in this moment both existing and non-existing and will always be, have always been in this state? What if change in condition of life or death is viewing one fragment or another of the constant whole? What if it's casting a shadow from different sides of the same constant?


That state that you are describing, kind of one outside of "time", is what I understand as the divinity and God, perhaps the "church ascendant", ie angels and saints too but I am not even sure about that myself.

I am a Christian/RC believer but in the main I believe in the idea of the Buddhist or Hindu "pure land" religions which have the majority of people experiencing a kind of "quantum immortality" and reincarnation perpetually, only I would call this state "purgatory". Its got to do with "sin" but not as most of its secular critics understand it but as Eckhart or the mystics did which has real parallels with buddhist ideas about attachment to worldliness.

The fear of death I dont think is entirely about fear of pain, fear of disembodiment, dissolution, nothingness, as all those things, in theory, are experienced during sleep, drunkenness, narcotic or anesthetic sedation, those "little deaths" or if you consider philosophically, the thousands of years of your "pre-birth existence" (to reference Schopenhauer).

I think it is to do with not being "satiated" with life, not having had enough of it, this is a kind of radical life affirming understanding of worldliness, since I do think that creation was/is a gift from God. The final judgements posited in allegory or story from the Jewish traditions in which recording angels or God asks the newly perished soul why they didnt bother with all the joys, rewards, good things in life make sense. I've read about near death experiences in which people approach death and someone or something asks them "what about..." someone or something of a worldly character and "zip" they're back like they just hit up "continue" on the "game over" screen.
 
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In the previous post, I looked for sentence in the Bible and Koran in which I could find the word prophet that is to be understood as spokesperson. This time I looked for sentence in the bible in which a word prophet which is to be understood as person who foretells future event. I have found Jeremiah Ch.28:5-6

Jeremiah Ch. 28:5-6 English Translation said:
And Jeremiah the prophet said to Hananiah the prophet before the eyes of the priests and before the eyes of all the people standing in the house of the Lord.
And Jeremiah the prophet said, "Amen! So may the Lord do. May the Lord fulfill your words that you have prophesied, to return the vessels of the house of the Lord and all the exile from Babylon to this place.
source
in this Jeremiah Ch 28:5-6, prophet [Hananiah] means someone who foretells the underlined future event. Prophet in this sentence can't be understood as spokesperson.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I don't think I've ever tried to talk someone out of their religious beliefs and have even seen the value of the strong social groups it creates. People have more tendency to help each other survive when they share an identity and paradigm of reality.

What troubles me about most religions is the relationship to authority it establishes. It often places a human being in the position of infallible source of truth, whether it is the Pope, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Hare Krishna, the Reverend Moon, etc. This relationship is the same as the toddler to parent who needs to respond to the parent as infallible in order to help survival, since the toddler does not have the capacity to work out survival alone. Developmentally young children see their parents as infallible, and it is helpful during that stage of life.

Religions tend to revert thinking back to that developmental stage. Arrested development is complex because it is never entirely manifested, but combines with differing levels of development. When this element of infallibility of authority is present, this is what infantilizes the populations, allowing them to respond to other authority without question. This enable political leaders to make declarations, as wildly false as they want, and there are people who embrace it without question. This needs to stop.

I realize that many religiously minded people are very philosophical and critical thinkers, but this foundational acceptance of a source of ideas from another human is a pervasive problem. The underlying assumptions must be questioned in order for full thinking to occur.
 

Red Memories

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I don't think I've ever tried to talk someone out of their religious beliefs and have even seen the value of the strong social groups it creates. People have more tendency to help each other survive when they share an identity and paradigm of reality.

What troubles me about most religions is the relationship to authority it establishes. It often places a human being in the position of infallible source of truth, whether it is the Pope, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Hare Krishna, the Reverend Moon, etc. This relationship is the same as the toddler to parent who needs to respond to the parent as infallible in order to help survival, since the toddler does not have the capacity to work out survival alone. Developmentally young children see their parents as infallible, and it is helpful during that stage of life.

Religions tend to revert thinking back to that developmental stage. Arrested development is complex because it is never entirely manifested, but combines with differing levels of development. When this element of infallibility of authority is present, this is what infantilizes the populations, allowing them to respond to other authority without question. This enable political leaders to make declarations, as wildly false as they want, and there are people who embrace it without question. This needs to stop.

I realize that many religiously minded people are very philosophical and critical thinkers, but this foundational acceptance of a source of ideas from another human is a pervasive problem. The underlying assumptions must be questioned in order for full thinking to occur.

Keep in mind to many fundamentalist, I am a heretic. XD But I sort of disagree with the assessment at the root. That is ingrained in the way though churches want people to obey and be compliant, but that is also why I disliked many churches.

God gave us gifts, abilities, knowledge, sense, etc. in order to survive on our own. It seems to me a very flawed relationship with God if you feel you need an infallible master to survive. I go to God if I so desire something of His word. Jesus was just God incarnated on earth, with a divine nature, hence He could survive not doing earthly things we must do all the time. Nevertheless, I think God created us out of love and merely wants a loving relationship with us. I suppose I best found my peace with God when I imagined God as more like your best friend rather than your parent - you don't always listen but you always talk to them and you have this very strong relationship with them. Trust. Care. that kind of thing. Although for many, God can be a softening replacement for neglectful parents (i.e. my mother put God in the place of her absent mother and as an escape from a very abusive place, and that's been her peace.) I don't think at least anyone here has ever seen God as the "necessity" to survival but more tried to grasp Him and what He means for our existence. I think we all have some great purpose we are here for which God is watching us fulfill. And He's a listening ear along the way and so on.

but perhaps my thinking is weird.
 
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My former co associate in brokerage (ENFJ) that I discussed prophecy with may understand prophet in the sense of person who foretells future event. In fact He is the first person who taught me the definition of prophecy in that sense. But he seemed not to understand prophet also in the sense of spokesperson. I remember overhearing He said God said this and that with my former principal, while what it was probably only the word of him not the word of God.

Having learnt that prophet means spokesperson also, I wonder Whether he thought himself a spokesperson of God? As far as I remember He even said that Abraham was not a prophet, probably since He can't tell future event that Abraham foretold.
 
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Lord Lavender

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Are ghosts just left over atoms lost in the timeline like glitches if you could say that?
 

Mind Maverick

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Bible: "I gave people free will."
Also Bible: "I'm punishing everyone who isn't Adam and Eve for doing what Adam and Eve chose, which was not a choice that billions of people made."
Also Bible: "I'm all-powerful and would be able to give each person this choice if I wanted to."

Bible: "I want everyone to believe, but I'm going to make it really hard to believe."

OK, buddy. Sure.
 

Mind Maverick

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I'm not spiritual (anymore) but I've spent a lot of time studying and reflecting upon spirituality/religion as a subject, so while this isn't exactly a random spiritual thought...it's still a random thought on the subject of spirituality.

I don't exactly have a problem with the concept of faith simply because believing in just about anything requires faith. Believing in the accuracy of accounts of historical events? Faith. Believing in that scientific study that was conducted? Faith - I mean, were you there to witness the way studies were conducted? Do you know who funded the research (thus what biases there were)? Just look at how the tobacco industry funded research that led to A Personality and B Personality types in order to prove that tobacco wasn't causing health problems, but certain personalities were more prone to both health problems and smoking. There's no such thing as A Personality or B Personality types according to present day, modern research. There are also all the "research wars" funded by the food industry with 1 goal in mind: money. Science is sometimes faulty, too. I can't think of many objective absolutes in existence.

What I have a problem with...is not ensuring that your faith is as accurately placed as it can be. Mistakes and errors have consequences.
 

tony_goth

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there is no karma - no god in the sky righting wrongs or punishing people.

Emotional and rational remorses are punishments already.


No holy book is inherently true to the letter.

Agreed. Like no text is true to the letter by itself, but only compared to a language and culture.

Not to be PC. I mean, it's just that all people don't have the same idea of what "uncleanness" is.

And as someone say [insert a kind of sin] has some severity, another will think it's more grave. (some fundamentalist Catholic said mouth kissing a fiancée is sinful, but St Thomas Aquinas said it is not - but in this case the fundamentalists purposedfully lied to me - I hate liars from the very deepest of my heart and I think fundamentalist Catholics don't even deserve to be called Catholics or Christians ) (Selling fake Nike shoes is "bad" but most people do that just to eat every day. Selling fake Christ is way way worse.) Sorry for the outburst. I just hate liars, especially because of my 10+ year experience with these fake Catholics.

In some cultures you're caught cheating on your wife she leaves you, but in other cultures you're caught cheating on your wife you face death penalty.
 

Virtual ghost

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worldreligions-detailed.png
 

Lark

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I cant remember if I did any posts about the big list of skills or skills acquisition, these were things with a sort of spiritual aspect I read loads about one time
 

Red Memories

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Just a question for spiritual people - what purpose does spirituality serve? What do you gain from it?

I feel I obtain a sense of peace and an unconditional love from some place. I suppose it gives me peace to always have that.
 

citizen cane

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Church zoom meeting with the one pastor and a few people in about an hour and a half. Should be nice, calming, and centering.
 
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