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  1. #321
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    This might be a dead end conversation because I don't believe there is right or wrong, just different perspectives.
    But there's a sort of...flaw in that...although I am sure rapists and murderers of innocent grandmas might like to say their perspective is...correct...but the victims will strongly disagree.

    I do think there is an objective right or wrong on certain things, but again, sin isn't so black and white. Like a child who steals food from a store but is homeless. It really isn't "sinful" at this rate to "steal" something. But this may be what you mean by "different perspectives"?


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  2. #322
    Senior Member GoggleGirl17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    But there's a sort of...flaw in that...although I am sure rapists and murderers of innocent grandmas might like to say their perspective is...correct...but the victims will strongly disagree.

    I do think there is an objective right or wrong on certain things, but again, sin isn't so black and white. Like a child who steals food from a store but is homeless. It really isn't "sinful" at this rate to "steal" something. But this may be what you mean by "different perspectives"?
    Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.

  3. #323
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.
    I think you can have compassion for the situation which may create that experience but find it completely awful and horrible to do at the same time.

    I am aware what sort of chaotic childhood may have led to my predator being who he was. But that does NOT make what he did to me okay in any way and I refuse to validate anything that he did as okay. So yes, I suppose there's a "line". But one I hope any person should have, so they do not have to face abuse.

    Your negative experiences are no excuse for you to rape, kill, or harm other innocent people. I suppose this is why this conversation is a wall.

    Agree to disagree.


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  4. #324
    Senior Member GoggleGirl17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    I think you can have compassion for the situation which may create that experience but find it completely awful and horrible to do at the same time.

    I am aware what sort of chaotic childhood may have led to my predator being who he was. But that does NOT make what he did to me okay in any way and I refuse to validate anything that he did as okay. So yes, I suppose there's a "line". But one I hope any person should have, so they do not have to face abuse.

    Your negative experiences are no excuse for you to rape, kill, or harm other innocent people. I suppose this is why this conversation is a wall.

    Agree to disagree.
    Who says it's not ok? You or love? Whatever arises from God, even suffering, is love because love is allowing and accepting. If this were not the case, then how cruel it was of God to have animals be required to kill each other to survive. What you're referring to is attachment.

  5. #325
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    Who says it's not ok? You or love? Whatever arises from God, even suffering, is love because love is allowing and accepting. If this were not the case, then how cruel it was of God to have animals be required to kill each other to survive.
    This is not the same thing. I am not required to kill you to survive. Now if you try to kill me I suppose I could kill you to defend myself and survive and yes this would not be the same either. Many animals are put into a complex ecosystem which balances itself through these things. We as humans are not required to kill each other for food. We are not required to rape people to survive. It is something people do, yes, but it is not necessary. My predator is surviving just fine without the ability to abuse me, although he enjoyed doing so.

    There is a theological theory which discussed that God allows us to suffer so we may also feel happiness, so he does allow suffering to exist. Nevertheless, in a perfect world, people would not do these needless acts which hurt other people. In a perfect world, maybe animals wouldn't each other. But we do not live in a perfect world.

    But this may be something I am going to have trouble even following because this is very personal at this point. I faced emotional abuse from a sexual predator from 12 years to 16 and I am sorry but it is pretty difficult for me to even fathom defending him on a whole basis. As said, I can have compassion for what likely created such situations, but I cannot under any circumstance suggest a grown ass man fucking over the feelings of a young girl and ruining her ability to trust is "okay" in some perspective of perfect love. And if that makes me "uncompassionate" I'm not sure that kind of compassion you're speaking of is even healthy. That sounds to me like you would enable him and that isn't good for either of you.


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  6. #326
    Senior Member GoggleGirl17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    This is not the same thing. I am not required to kill you to survive. Now if you try to kill me I suppose I could kill you to defend myself and survive and yes this would not be the same either. Many animals are put into a complex ecosystem which balances itself through these things. We as humans are not required to kill each other for food. We are not required to rape people to survive. It is something people do, yes, but it is not necessary. My predator is surviving just fine without the ability to abuse me, although he enjoyed doing so.

    There is a theological theory which discussed that God allows us to suffer so we may also feel happiness, so he does allow suffering to exist. Nevertheless, in a perfect world, people would not do these needless acts which hurt other people. In a perfect world, maybe animals wouldn't each other. But we do not live in a perfect world.

    But this may be something I am going to have trouble even following because this is very personal at this point. I faced emotional abuse from a sexual predator from 12 years to 16 and I am sorry but it is pretty difficult for me to even fathom defending him on a whole basis. As said, I can have compassion for what likely created such situations, but I cannot under any circumstance suggest a grown ass man fucking over the feelings of a young girl and ruining her ability to trust is "okay" in some perspective of perfect love. And if that makes me "uncompassionate" I'm not sure that kind of compassion you're speaking of is even healthy. That sounds to me like you would enable him and that isn't good for either of you.
    All I was saying is that suffering and happiness are relative to whose experience you're talking about. I don't know why you assume I was talking about how I feel about rapists and murderers, I was talking about the concept of infinite love. I think lack of love is the reason for all types of dysfunction in the world. I didn't mean to upset you girl, I'm sorry.
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  7. #327
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    All I was saying is that suffering and happiness are relative to who's experience you're talking about. I don't know why you assume I was talking how I feel about rapists and murderers, I was talking about the concept of infinite love. I think lack of love is the reason for all types of dysfunction in the world. I didn't mean to upset you girl, I'm sorry.
    Okay...see this is why I felt okay I think I am making this toooooo personal. But in that essence I can agree. Many people go to do these sort of things from places of unlove. Many of them have stories of broken, chaotic families. I suppose my sense was, you don't want to become the monster you hate. Hence I said it isn't okay that just because you were unloved to go on treating the rest of the world unlovingly. If that makes sense. I am also terrible at debating and keeping my emotions out of stuff. XD but thank you for not getting short with me.


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  8. #328
    The Quiet Rebel Firebird 8118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.
    I actually disagree here. For example, it does a disservice to both an attacker and their victim for the victim to be forgiving and “let things slide”. To the attacker, it implies that their actions are acceptable; to the victim, it implies that they deserve to go through the same experience in future interactions.

    You can forgive someone without agreeing with them or even allowing them into your life. Being kind includes being kind to yourself. It’s just as limiting to accept less for yourself as it is to push someone away, if not more so.
    “The world breaks everyone, then some become strong at the broken places.” ~Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
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  9. #329
    Senior Member GoggleGirl17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird 8118 View Post
    I actually disagree here. For example, it does a disservice to both an attacker and their victim for the victim to be forgiving and “let things slide”. To the attacker, it implies that their actions are acceptable; to the victim, it implies that they deserve to go through the same experience in future interactions.

    You can forgive someone without agreeing with them or even allowing them into your life. Being kind includes being kind to yourself. It’s just as limiting to accept less for yourself as it is to push someone away, if not more so.
    I was not talking about this from a subjective human perspective, sorry if that was not clear. What I'm trying to say is that every problem stems from a problem, which stems from a deeper societal problem, and so on. All of these problems are a consequence of a lack of love. Humans are not God in this way. Infinite love is not something that can be achieved on an individual basis, because we run into dilemmas like these. I'm saying that to avoid dysfunctional human behavior and suffering in the first place, we need to address the root, which is not a victim letting something an attacker did to them go. It is something that requires a collective shift in consciousness and how we treat each other.
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  10. #330
    The Quiet Rebel Firebird 8118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoggleGirl17 View Post
    I was not talking about this from a subjective human perspective, sorry if that was not clear. What I'm trying to say is that every problem stems from a problem, which stems from a deeper societal problem, and so on. All of these problems are a consequence of a lack of love. Humans are not God in this way. Infinite love is not something that can be achieved on an individual basis, because we run into dilemmas like these. I'm saying that to avoid dysfunctional human behavior and suffering in the first place, we need to address the root, which is not a victim letting something an attacker did to them go. It is something that requires a collective shift in consciousness and how we treat each other.
    Aha, thanks for clearing that up this I can agree with.
    “The world breaks everyone, then some become strong at the broken places.” ~Ernest Hemingway

    Johari: https://kevan.org/johari?name=~MS*ANGEL~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    "And then, raising my lids slowly and looking out from underneath my lashes, i captured him with my eyes"
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