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Thread: What the devil?

  1. #1
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    Default What the devil?

    What does anyone else think about the decline of the devil in literary or fictional sources? I'm watching Bedazzled, the latest version not the earlier version, not sure exactly which it is that I like the best, the more modern one I think is a little more raunchy, and thinking about how the whole devil as "tempter" or attempting to buy souls has disappeared as a trope, I wonder if this is because of the rise of atheism, culturally, tropes like the "sell your soul" idea are just fictional tricks and tropes rather than beliefs.

    Radio 4 had a brilliant "Old Harry's Game" series but it was kind of retro, unintentionally, or so I thought in some ways, and its from a few years back, occasionally resurrected with seasonal one offs.

    There was a good ninties (I think it was ninties) film in which a guy installs a satellite dish in his yard and it opens a portal to hell, the denizens of which are creating faux horrorific, torture shows to try and preoccupy the devil in order that they can take over while he is distracted, at least in their relative departments, it was brilliant but I dont remember who was in it and the title of it.

    There were also book, Alfred Hitchcock anthologised a collection of stories called devils, devils, devils which were more or less all the devil as bargainer and contract writer type, the story about the guy asking the devil to fill some boots hung in a chimney with gold and then cutting the soles out of them in order that he has actually to fill the whole house with gold.

    Like even if you dont buy the whole supernatural side of things or the demonology I like the idea of it as a trope, so its just disappeared altogether and I think that's a shame, there's less imagination about. We should bring it back.

  2. #2
    Elegance of chaos Nomendei's Avatar
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    I really appreciate the TV-Serie Lucifer from Netflix. How the devil is portrayed is an interesting idea. I see the bible as a fiction and showing the devil as a protagonist, or at least as an antihero, is appealing to me. It brings a different Lucifer than the traditional purely evil devil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomendei View Post
    I really appreciate the TV-Serie Lucifer from Netflix. How the devil is portrayed is an interesting idea. I see the bible as a fiction and showing the devil as a protagonist, or at least as an antihero, is appealing to me. It brings a different Lucifer than the traditional purely evil devil.
    Sometimes I think that is interesting, sometimes I think its just very modern, as a caveat I dont think that the bible is fiction but the devil as portrayed in the bible, or for that matter, angels, devils, heaven and hell, are not like they are portrayed in popular culture, fictions or not, these things have a lot more to do with the medieval imagination and morality plays.

    In the book of Job Lucifer is much more like the character in the TV show, in Paradise Lost and Paradise Found Lucifer is a lot more like the character in the show too, both those books I think are very good, I think of them as canon, along with Dante and others, as spiritual reads of my own spiritual library (I think whether you are an athiest or not its a good idea to do this, I think it was Jefferson or Franklin who suggested people should, also that people should read the bible but read it as they would Homer or Tacticus or something).

    Its only hinted at in the show, though I think its expanded more in the comics (you know about the comics right? I think if you like the show then you'd really like the comics), but the idea of Lucifer being a cosmic or celestial Punisher, that's right, like Frank Castle, isnt a bad one. In some theological schools of thought, mainly ones predating Christianity, the devil is an angel merely doing God's bidding, God is capable of and does good and evil, or at least what appears to be good and evil to humans who do not know the grand design, some of the more contemporaneous attempts to reboot that thinking by evanglical protestants are tied into all sorts of confused and confusing German philosophy of the whole beyond good and evil sort or the Lovecraftian humans will never understand the cosmic horror of it all sort of thing.

    I do like the show but I feel its run out of steam a little, which is a shame, it could wind up being produced ad infinitum I think, a little like Supernatural, reinventing itself or winning new audiences just as the older viewers turn off, I get a bad feeling about Amazon studios that they are going cold on the idea of film and TV production and there isnt the same investment in that as there was. They seem to be doing a lot more in terms of grocery and competing with Tesco, the whole Amazon dash and repeat sales and selling seems to be what they are really chasing at the moment.

    They've nixed the entire social media side of the operation, not without reason I'd say and just in time to avoid some of the bad stuff that's trending there, though they nixed lists and listmanias before that and that was a feature I really liked, I've no idea if they'll go so far as to nix the studios side of things but Netflix is a clear winner on that front at the moment, plus audible, kindle unlimited and amazon music didnt perform quite as they'd hoped I think, spotify has a big market they probably thought could have and should have been theirs.

    Sorry, got a little off topic there. I like Amazon.
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    Bird of War Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    What does anyone else think about the decline of the devil in literary or fictional sources? I'm watching Bedazzled, the latest version not the earlier version, not sure exactly which it is that I like the best, the more modern one I think is a little more raunchy, and thinking about how the whole devil as "tempter" or attempting to buy souls has disappeared as a trope, I wonder if this is because of the rise of atheism, culturally, tropes like the "sell your soul" idea are just fictional tricks and tropes rather than beliefs.
    I like the movie and short story "The Devil and Daniel Webster", even if some of the jury of the damned doesn't really seem that bad. At the end of the movie the version, the devil eats some stolen pie, which I find hilarious.

    Are you familiar with the story? It was parodied on the Simpsons once. Daniel Webster was also a real historical figure, a contemporary of Thoreau.
    Take my love.
    Take my land.
    Take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care.
    I'm still free.
    You can't take the sky from me.





    Visit my Johari:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    I like the movie and short story "The Devil and Daniel Webster", even if some of the jury of the damned doesn't really seem that bad. At the end of the movie the version, the devil eats some stolen pie, which I find hilarious.

    Are you familiar with the story? It was parodied on the Simpsons once. Daniel Webster was also a real historical figure, a contemporary of Thoreau.
    I think I've seen the Simpsons parody, Flanders was the Devil? I think I'll see if I can find out about the story or the film, cheers

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    Bird of War Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    I think I've seen the Simpsons parody, Flanders was the Devil? I think I'll see if I can find out about the story or the film, cheers
    Yeah, exactly.
    Take my love.
    Take my land.
    Take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care.
    I'm still free.
    You can't take the sky from me.





    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The Devll is the Angel of Light, Lucifer, from Lux meaning 'light', who fell from grace, just like us. We are Lucifer.
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    Bird of War Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Devll is the Angel of Light, Lucifer, from Lux meaning 'light', who fell from grace, just like us. We are Lucifer.
    Take my love.
    Take my land.
    Take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care.
    I'm still free.
    You can't take the sky from me.





    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78
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  9. #9
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    The villains we have today are becoming more and more "realistic", there's less room for imagination, you have more realistic "devils".

  10. #10
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    I would say the devil is being taken in less as a literal entity and more as only as a metaphorical device these days.

    Because being together is the ultimate goal, the less we see an actual enemy perhaps we’re one step closer to peace. Ideally anyway.

    Our new Messiah will come when the age of [Pluto in] Pisces is yet again on Earth.
    No time is ever wasted.

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