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  1. #1
    ☦️ Senior Member ☦️ Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Default Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam is so good, were we wrong to convert?

    Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam Is So Good, Were We Wrong to Convert? — Catholic Family News

    While "Pope" Francis inexplicably claims that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” (EG, para. 253), the signers of the open letter – former Muslims who know the truth about Islam from the inside – testify otherwise:

    “As a proper Antichrist, Islam exists only as an enemy of all: ‘Between us and you there is enmity and hatred forever, until you believe in Allah alone!’ (Quran 60:4) For the Quran, Christians ‘are only impurity’ (Quran 9:28), ‘the worst of Creation’ (Quran 98:6), all condemned to Hell (Quran 4:48), so Allah must exterminate them (Quran 9:30). We must not be deceived by the Quranic verses deemed tolerant, because they have all been repealed by the verse of the Sword (Quran 9:5). … We do not confuse Islam with Muslims, but if for you ‘dialogue’ means the voice of peace, for Islam it’s only another way to make war. Also, as it was in the face of Nazism and Communism, naiveté in the face of Islam is suicidal and very dangerous.

    “…you, Most Holy Father, preach the welcoming of migrants regardless of the fact that they are Muslims, something forbidden by Apostolic command: ‘If anyone comes to you but refuses this Gospel, do not receive him among you nor greet him. Whoever greets him participates in his evil works’ (2 John 1:10-11) …
    If atheism is a lack of belief, papism is a lack of faith.

    "The Seat is Vacant"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam Is So Good, Were We Wrong to Convert? — Catholic Family News

    While "Pope" Francis inexplicably claims that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” (EG, para. 253), the signers of the open letter – former Muslims who know the truth about Islam from the inside – testify otherwise:



    If atheism is a lack of belief, papism is a lack of faith.

    "The Seat is Vacant"
    Given that you fail to properly recognise the office of the Papacy is held by Francis, when this is an obvious fact I have every reason to doubt the truth of the rest of your post.

    Lets think about this for a moment, who has been trying hard to unify the whole of Europe against Islam in some bizarre modern day crusade? Are you going to follow them or the rightful appointed authority of the RCC?

    Its not hard to work out but then any post-reformation "christian" could have some trouble with it.

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    ☦️ Senior Member ☦️ Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    Given that you fail to properly recognise the office of the Papacy is held by Francis, when this is an obvious fact I have every reason to doubt the truth of the rest of your post.

    Lets think about this for a moment, who has been trying hard to unify the whole of Europe against Islam in some bizarre modern day crusade? Are you going to follow them or the rightful appointed authority of the RCC?

    Its not hard to work out but then any post-reformation "christian" could have some trouble with it.
    Take your apostolic schismaticism, your fillioque, and your "Pope", and your heretical Protestants, and go take a walk.

    -The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (of the East)

    Just kidding. It was an interesting article, though.

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    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    This is like asking: if English is so great, why bother to learn German, or Chinese, or Swahili?

    Six of one, half dozen of the other. All languages serve the same basic purpose. Most of us start off learning one from infancy. Studying others later broadens our horizons and helps us understand others better, literally and figuratively. Some of us find ourselves moving into situations where we communicate primarily in a language other than our first. Saying one is "better" than others is silly. Same with religion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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    ☦️ Senior Member ☦️ Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is like asking: if English is so great, why bother to learn German, or Chinese, or Swahili?

    Six of one, half dozen of the other. All languages serve the same basic purpose. Most of us start off learning one from infancy. Studying others later broadens our horizons and helps us understand others better, literally and figuratively. Some of us find ourselves moving into situations where we communicate primarily in a language other than our first. Saying one is "better" than others is silly. Same with religion.
    No. Languages and religion are not the same thing. Neither do languages make any claims that contradict another. The closest languages can come to that is having a words or phrases that won't directly translate to another. "Catholic" is one such Greek word that English can only inch toward with the word "Universal."

    Also, why is saying one religion is better than another silly? This universalism itself is a religious claim. Please start your own thread on your universalism, or not. Otherwise, try to stay on topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Also, why is saying one religion is better than another silly? This universalism itself is a religious claim. Please start your own thread on your universalism, or not. Otherwise, try to stay on topic.
    I dont know about silly but it is wildly unpersuasive, sectarianism is a dead end, literally for a lot of people but good luck with it if its your thing, I can live without it.

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    What counts as a "proper reading" anyway?

    Leviticus sets out numerous harsh punishments and guidelines for shit like animal sacrifice.

    I don't take any of these texts like the Qu-Ran or Hebrew Bible too literally, but I'm just wondering what the hell Francis means by "proper reading"

    Reading it through the filter of any given culture's current norms and values? Reading it literally and following it word-for-word?

    I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and values held by Islamic cultures but I also think it's a bit presumptuous and arrogant for the leader of a religion that exists in a completely different culture to assume what is and isn't a proper reading in someone else's culture.

    I'm not sure there really is a "proper" way. It seems the "proper way" would be arbitrary and subjective, more dependent on the reader's own cultural upbringing and values and less on whatever was originally intended at the time of writing.

    Francis and OP are both making the same mistake, though ending in different conclusions.
    our preferences do not determine what's true. -Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Take your apostolic schismaticism, your fillioque, and your "Pope", and your heretical Protestants, and go take a walk.

    -The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (of the East)

    Just kidding. It was an interesting article, though.
    Nice.

    Noted too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    What counts as a "proper reading" anyway?

    Leviticus sets out numerous harsh punishments and guidelines for shit like animal sacrifice.

    I don't take any of these texts like the Qu-Ran or Hebrew Bible too literally, but I'm just wondering what the hell Francis means by "proper reading"

    Reading it through the filter of any given culture's current norms and values? Reading it literally and following it word-for-word?

    I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and values held by Islamic cultures but I also think it's a bit presumptuous and arrogant for the leader of a religion that exists in a completely different culture to assume what is and isn't a proper reading in someone else's culture.

    I'm not sure there really is a "proper" way. It seems the "proper way" would be arbitrary and subjective, more dependent on the reader's own cultural upbringing and values and less on whatever was originally intended at the time of writing.

    Francis and OP are both making the same mistake, though ending in different conclusions.
    I've no idea if people who make those sorts of statements about the Pope are aware of how presumptuous and arrogant it comes off as, I wouldnt think that too many people are going around pronouncing in quite the same way about plumping or engineering or the work of electricians, they correctly realise what their expertise is and how its likely to be more limited than the professionals who have dedicated their entire lives or at least their learning to it all.

  10. #10
    ☦️ Senior Member ☦️ Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    I dont know about silly but it is wildly unpersuasive,
    Right?

    sectarianism is a dead end
    For the pacifist.

    literally for a lot of people but good luck with it if its your thing, I can live without it.
    No, brother. Based on your postings, I doubt you have fangs.

    Ecclesiastes 3 (KJV)

    3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

    3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

    4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

    5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

    6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

    7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

    8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace...
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