Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam is so good, were we wrong to convert?

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam Is So Good, Were We Wrong to Convert? — Catholic Family News

While "Pope" Francis inexplicably claims that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” (EG, para. 253), the signers of the open letter – former Muslims who know the truth about Islam from the inside – testify otherwise:

“As a proper Antichrist, Islam exists only as an enemy of all: ‘Between us and you there is enmity and hatred forever, until you believe in Allah alone!’ (Quran 60:4) For the Quran, Christians ‘are only impurity’ (Quran 9:28), ‘the worst of Creation’ (Quran 98:6), all condemned to Hell (Quran 4:48), so Allah must exterminate them (Quran 9:30). We must not be deceived by the Quranic verses deemed tolerant, because they have all been repealed by the verse of the Sword (Quran 9:5). … We do not confuse Islam with Muslims, but if for you ‘dialogue’ means the voice of peace, for Islam it’s only another way to make war. Also, as it was in the face of Nazism and Communism, naiveté in the face of Islam is suicidal and very dangerous.

“…you, Most Holy Father, preach the welcoming of migrants regardless of the fact that they are Muslims, something forbidden by Apostolic command: ‘If anyone comes to you but refuses this Gospel, do not receive him among you nor greet him. Whoever greets him participates in his evil works’ (2 John 1:10-11) …

If atheism is a lack of belief, papism is a lack of faith.

"The Seat is Vacant"

 

[Lark]

Former Muslims Confront Francis: If Islam Is So Good, Were We Wrong to Convert? — Catholic Family News

While "Pope" Francis inexplicably claims that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” (EG, para. 253), the signers of the open letter – former Muslims who know the truth about Islam from the inside – testify otherwise:



If atheism is a lack of belief, papism is a lack of faith.

"The Seat is Vacant"

Given that you fail to properly recognise the office of the Papacy is held by Francis, when this is an obvious fact I have every reason to doubt the truth of the rest of your post.

Lets think about this for a moment, who has been trying hard to unify the whole of Europe against Islam in some bizarre modern day crusade? Are you going to follow them or the rightful appointed authority of the RCC?

Its not hard to work out but then any post-reformation "christian" could have some trouble with it.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Given that you fail to properly recognise the office of the Papacy is held by Francis, when this is an obvious fact I have every reason to doubt the truth of the rest of your post.

Lets think about this for a moment, who has been trying hard to unify the whole of Europe against Islam in some bizarre modern day crusade? Are you going to follow them or the rightful appointed authority of the RCC?

Its not hard to work out but then any post-reformation "christian" could have some trouble with it.

Take your apostolic schismaticism, your fillioque, and your "Pope", and your heretical Protestants, and go take a walk.

-The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (of the East)

Just kidding. It was an interesting article, though.

 

[Coriolis]

This is like asking: if English is so great, why bother to learn German, or Chinese, or Swahili?

Six of one, half dozen of the other. All languages serve the same basic purpose. Most of us start off learning one from infancy. Studying others later broadens our horizons and helps us understand others better, literally and figuratively. Some of us find ourselves moving into situations where we communicate primarily in a language other than our first. Saying one is "better" than others is silly. Same with religion.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

This is like asking: if English is so great, why bother to learn German, or Chinese, or Swahili?

Six of one, half dozen of the other. All languages serve the same basic purpose. Most of us start off learning one from infancy. Studying others later broadens our horizons and helps us understand others better, literally and figuratively. Some of us find ourselves moving into situations where we communicate primarily in a language other than our first. Saying one is "better" than others is silly. Same with religion.

No. Languages and religion are not the same thing. Neither do languages make any claims that contradict another. The closest languages can come to that is having a words or phrases that won't directly translate to another. "Catholic" is one such Greek word that English can only inch toward with the word "Universal."

Also, why is saying one religion is better than another silly? This universalism itself is a religious claim. Please start your own thread on your universalism, or not. Otherwise, try to stay on topic.

 

[Lark]

Also, why is saying one religion is better than another silly? This universalism itself is a religious claim. Please start your own thread on your universalism, or not. Otherwise, try to stay on topic.

I dont know about silly but it is wildly unpersuasive, sectarianism is a dead end, literally for a lot of people but good luck with it if its your thing, I can live without it.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

What counts as a "proper reading" anyway?

Leviticus sets out numerous harsh punishments and guidelines for shit like animal sacrifice.

I don't take any of these texts like the Qu-Ran or Hebrew Bible too literally, but I'm just wondering what the hell Francis means by "proper reading"

Reading it through the filter of any given culture's current norms and values? Reading it literally and following it word-for-word?

I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and values held by Islamic cultures but I also think it's a bit presumptuous and arrogant for the leader of a religion that exists in a completely different culture to assume what is and isn't a proper reading in someone else's culture.

I'm not sure there really is a "proper" way. It seems the "proper way" would be arbitrary and subjective, more dependent on the reader's own cultural upbringing and values and less on whatever was originally intended at the time of writing.

Francis and OP are both making the same mistake, though ending in different conclusions.

 

[Lark]

Take your apostolic schismaticism, your fillioque, and your "Pope", and your heretical Protestants, and go take a walk.

-The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (of the East)

Just kidding. It was an interesting article, though.

Nice.

Noted too.

 

[Lark]

What counts as a "proper reading" anyway?

Leviticus sets out numerous harsh punishments and guidelines for shit like animal sacrifice.

I don't take any of these texts like the Qu-Ran or Hebrew Bible too literally, but I'm just wondering what the hell Francis means by "proper reading"

Reading it through the filter of any given culture's current norms and values? Reading it literally and following it word-for-word?

I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and values held by Islamic cultures but I also think it's a bit presumptuous and arrogant for the leader of a religion that exists in a completely different culture to assume what is and isn't a proper reading in someone else's culture.

I'm not sure there really is a "proper" way. It seems the "proper way" would be arbitrary and subjective, more dependent on the reader's own cultural upbringing and values and less on whatever was originally intended at the time of writing.

Francis and OP are both making the same mistake, though ending in different conclusions.

I've no idea if people who make those sorts of statements about the Pope are aware of how presumptuous and arrogant it comes off as, I wouldnt think that too many people are going around pronouncing in quite the same way about plumping or engineering or the work of electricians, they correctly realise what their expertise is and how its likely to be more limited than the professionals who have dedicated their entire lives or at least their learning to it all.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

I dont know about silly but it is wildly unpersuasive,

Right?

sectarianism is a dead end

For the pacifist.

literally for a lot of people but good luck with it if its your thing, I can live without it.

No, brother. Based on your postings, I doubt you have fangs.

Ecclesiastes 3 (KJV)

3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace...

 

[Lark]

Right?



For the pacifist.



No, brother. Based on your postings, I doubt you have fangs.

I wont pretend to know what any of this means.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

I wont pretend to know what any of this means.

...and if you grow teeth you realize that you're somewhat dangerous, or maybe somewhat seriously dangerous, and you might be more willing to demand that you treat yourself with respect, and other people do the same thing. And, so that doesn't mean that being cruel is better than not being cruel, what it means is that being able to be cruel, and then not being cruel is better than not being able to be cruel at all. Because in the first case, you're nothing but weak and naive, and in the second case you're dangerous..., but you have it under control, and a lot of martial arts concentrate on exactly that as part of their philosophy and training. They're not training you to fight. They're training you to be peaceful, and awake, and avoid fights. But, if you happen to have to get into a fight; if you're competent at fighting, that actually decreases the probability that you're going to have to fight.

-JP

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

What counts as a "proper reading" anyway?

Leviticus sets out numerous harsh punishments and guidelines for shit like animal sacrifice.

I don't take any of these texts like the Qu-Ran or Hebrew Bible too literally, but I'm just wondering what the hell Francis means by "proper reading"

Reading it through the filter of any given culture's current norms and values? Reading it literally and following it word-for-word?

I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and values held by Islamic cultures but I also think it's a bit presumptuous and arrogant for the leader of a religion that exists in a completely different culture to assume what is and isn't a proper reading in someone else's culture.

I'm not sure there really is a "proper" way. It seems the "proper way" would be arbitrary and subjective, more dependent on the reader's own cultural upbringing and values and less on whatever was originally intended at the time of writing.

Francis and OP are both making the same mistake, though ending in different conclusions.

I don't care about the Muslims or their Koran, in this case. This thread is more a laugh at Frankie's expense.

 

[Lark]

-JP

So your religious interest is really a sectarian excuse for violence?

Yeah, like I said before, that's not something I need in my life, I think you ought to question why you need it in yours but that's just me, you obviously dont see things that way from what you've posted and I doubt I can persuade you otherwise.

Its good that threads like this get created though that people can understand one another better and things are clearer about peoples beliefs, then they can decide whether or not its worth their while interacting with them. For my part I dont have any time for sectarianism or the people who have a strong need to profess a belief in that sort of thing.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

So your religious interest is really a sectarian excuse for violence?

Yeah, like I said before, that's not something I need in my life, I think you ought to question why you need it in yours but that's just me, you obviously dont see things that way from what you've posted and I doubt I can persuade you otherwise.

Its good that threads like this get created though that people can understand one another better and things are clearer about peoples beliefs, then they can decide whether or not its worth their while interacting with them. For my part I dont have any time for sectarianism or the people who have a strong need to profess a belief in that sort of thing.

Nice deflection, Francis.

Don't post in my threads anymore. Matter of fact, put me on ignore.

 

[Lark]

Nice deflection, Francis.

Deflection? I doubt it, dont feel too bad about getting owned on an online forum though.

Don't post in my threads anymore. Matter of fact, put me on ignore.

And that'll be something else you've got no control over what so ever.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Deflection? I doubt it, dont feel too bad about getting owned on an online forum though.

How did I get "owned?"

"Let's take it back to '79."

-Something about sectarianism that you brought up. (because the dichotomous opposite of universalism is obviously sectarianism /s)
-So I played your game by (nicely) saying I disbelieve your survival in a sectarian environment, citing the wisdom of Solomon.
-You didn't get it
-I explained it further by quoting JP
-Then you caught the vapors
-Then I told you to F-off
-You're refusing to F-off

That's my version.

And that'll be something else you've got no control over what so ever.

No means no, Francis.

 

[Warrior]

How did I get "owned?"

"Let's take it back to '79."

-Something about sectarianism that you brought up. (because the dichotomous opposite of universalism is obviously sectarianism /s)
-So I played your game by (nicely) saying you wouldn't survive in a sectarian environment, citing the wisdom of Solomon.
-You didn't get it
-I explained it further by quoting JP
-Then you caught the vapors
-Then I told you to F-off
-You're refusing to F-off

That's my version.



No means no, Francis.

Admit it, [MENTION=35148]Isk Stark[/MENTION].....you're a duplicate account of [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] IP CHECK ON AISLE 3 IP CHECK ON AISLE 3!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I wont pretend to know what any of this means.

[MENTION=7280]Survive & Stay Free[/MENTION] Face it this guy is a duplicate account of [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]....report him let the mods figure it out....

 

[Typh0n]

Admit it, [MENTION=35148]Isk Stark[/MENTION].....you're a duplicate account of [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] IP CHECK ON AISLE 3 IP CHECK ON AISLE 3!!!!!!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

[MENTION=7280]Survive & Stay Free[/MENTION] Face it this guy is a duplicate account of [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]....report him let the mods figure it out....

Why are you offended? Genuine question.

 

[Warrior]

How did I get "owned?"

"Let's take it back to '79."

-Something about sectarianism that you brought up. (because the dichotomous opposite of universalism is obviously sectarianism /s)
-So I played your game by (nicely) saying I disbelieve your survival in a sectarian environment, citing the wisdom of Solomon.
-You didn't get it
-I explained it further by quoting JP
-Then you caught the vapors
-Then I told you to F-off
-You're refusing to F-off

That's my version.



No means no, Francis.

I have reported you to the proper authorities, oh duplicate