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Thread: Allah and the Universe
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01-09-2018, 09:45 AM #31
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01-09-2018, 09:48 AM #32
What else is there?
Right, and he had "faith" that it was there.
Not according to your previous two sentences. ^^^
Starting to sound geocentric here: "Something cannot exist unless We Humans can perceive its existence."
What I meant was that if we cannot perceive it, we cannot further explain it, which doesn't matter because we don't perceive it, so how does it affect us?
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01-09-2018, 09:57 AM #33
Like you, I also think it's higher - this percentage is only what is being reported. I live in a red, religious area and there are non-religious but there are also people that attend services because of societal pressure and appearance - I think this is a high number overall too.
I would venture to say it's closer to half, at least in the 40% range. I don't think that's overstating it - I think that's a more accurate number and that would include the atheist and agnostics who are aren't reporting due to persecution.I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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01-09-2018, 09:58 AM #34I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
Tactical Turtleneck liked this post
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01-09-2018, 10:02 AM #35
Intuition, feeling, thinking, judging, etc. You would be handicapping your search for knowledge if you used only one tool. Use all of the God-given tools of reason!
He had knowledge of the existence of India, which is where he thought he was.
Why not? I distinghuish between unknowable and simply just unknown.
What I meant was that if we cannot perceive it, we cannot further explain it, which doesn't matter because we don't perceive it, so how does it affect us?
One way is best described in Psalm 23 - This brief excerpt:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
The Orthodox (original) interpretation:
“It is necessary for you to be buried in death with Him by baptism. But it is not really death, but a shadow and image of death” (St. Gregory of Nyssa). “For we are baptized into the death of Christ, baptism is called the shadow and image of death, in face of which there is no longer anything to fear” (St. Cyril of Alexandria). The last part of this verse refers to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. “He comforts the believer, or guides him, with the rod and staff (the Shepherd’s crook) of the Spirit, for the One who guides or comforts is the Spirit (the Paraclete – the Greek verb here is “parekalesan”) (St. Gregory of Nyssa). “And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever...when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth...” (John 14:16; 16:13 – the verb translated “He has led...” in v. 3 of the Psalm, and “will guide” in John is “hodigise” and “hodigisei” in Greek).
No doubt a proper theist will doubt if indeed there is a God to comfort us, nonetheless, it confers a great psychological advantage to have faith that there is someone rooting for you.
Metropolitan Kallistos Ware explained better in The Orthodox Way.
And so it proves to be for each one who follows the spiritual Way. We go out from the known into the unknown, we advance from light into darkness. We do not simply proceed from the darkness of ignorance into the light of knowledge, but we go forward from the light of partial knowledge into a greater knowledge which is so much more profound that it can only be described as the 'darkness of unknowing'. Like Socrates we begin to realize how little we understand.χρήστος ανέστη
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01-09-2018, 10:08 AM #36
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01-09-2018, 10:11 AM #37
Pity those who think they're superior than others because of their beliefs.
Believers who follow their faith and commandments, actually know that they should not forcefeed propaganda and demean others because they are non-believers or atheists. Those who use religion to spread hate or attain a certain selfish outcome, ego sublimation, don't do that in the name of their creator, but because they have their own personal agenda.
Live and let live.
There are those who need Faith alone, and those who need Faith and knowledge, and others, need knowledge to reach Faith. I've been reading Qu'ran lately, and it is cited that Allah's greatest believers are those who use their acumen to come his greatness.
In fact the verse to be first revealed was "Iqraa!", meaning "Read!", which puts en emphasis on the importance of knowledge:
“Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen. He has taught man that which he knew not”
[al-‘Alaq 96:1-5]
In Islamic history, scholars and scientists always occupy a high status, and Qu'ran attests of this noble position as muslims knew this and were infused by that thirst of knowledge and thus made many important jumps in Algebra, Geodesy, Surgery, Art, Geometry, Physics, Astronomy, Architecture, Biology...etc:
“Allâh will exalt in degree those of you who believe, and those who have been granted knowledge”
[al-Mujaadilah 58:11]
Quranic injunctions did have an influence on their drive.
I believe reason and the pursuit of knowledge can take you closer to the experience of Faith, and as a matter of fact, only now, after many years, scientific research is reaching conclusions that were cited in Qu'ran ages ago. Imagine a messenger who has no knowledge in embryology whatsoever, basically illeterate, never learned how to read or write, during common era, was bestowed a revelation among many revelations that suggests:
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01-09-2018, 11:40 AM #38
I don't think all people who agree with the scientific method necessarily accept all science as the gospel. Now, there are certainly people who do this, accepting it like Dogma without an ounce of skepticism.
The more we know, the less we know. Science doesn't have all the answers, the important thing however is not giving up or accepting the lack of evidence and scientific data as proof in itself.
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01-09-2018, 11:51 AM #39
There's no argument that on the extremes of either end of atheism/theism spectrum, there are those who elevate and otherwise disregard knowledge (in its various forms) if it doesn't fit their worldview (which we are all guilty of to a degree).
The reason we are all guilty of elevating some knowledge over others may have to do with tribal survivability. It's easier to survive in a pack than individually, etc.
So, we each plant our flags on our preferred ideology and proclaim that:
Last note: "There is nothing brave about demanding certainty as a precondition for addressing a question. A brave thinker examines questions as they become necessary and accepts the uncertainty implicit in the inquiry. A humble thinker realizes he is not the first to explore hard questions and looks to the luminaries of the past."χρήστος ανέστη
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01-09-2018, 04:24 PM #40
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